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+--- Thread: [ARCHIVE] 1.1.5 Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium (/thread-573.html)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 03-21-2012 09:00 AM
(03-21-2012 08:37 AM)Sith_Happens Wrote: 1. They may just be trying to make hybrid builds less appealing, in which case they definitely succeeded. Of course, as many have pointed out, this same effect could probably have been better achieved by tweaking Thundering Blast and Creeping Terror to be more attractive in comparison, rather than killing Wrath Chain Lightning altogether.
3. AoE damage concerns (both PvE and PvP) seem to me like the most likely thing they wanted to squash, since the combination of Wrath Chain Lightning and Death Field could very well have been outperforming either pure build by a good margin. I've not found anything very concrete on this; does anyone here have actual numbers on how the current 0/13/28 and 7/18/16 compare to full Lightning and Madness against 3+ targets as opposed to one (with and without double-dip)?
As you can probably tell, I've been having a lot of fun with Wrath Chain Lightning and would feel a lot better about losing it if I had a better idea as to why it has to go in the first place.
1. Bioware clearly doesn't like hybrid builds. Sins had their hybrids nerfed (there is still one left, the Blood of the Sith build) and now in 1.2 Sorc Wrath Chain Lightning. Also Powertechs in tank stance lost a lot of dps, and maybe other hybrids were nerfed. Even if the 31 pointers were buffed, you still could spec Hybrid to cast instant CL. Also if the 31 pointers were buffed, those specs would do more than intended. I am sure Bioware has their own spreadsheets to help balance things.
3. I have consistent PvP numbers that were bigger numbers using Suffusion versus Hybrid 13/28. Perhaps some of the extra damage is "wasted" but it did most likely did more damage than was intended. SimCraft and the Sorc spreadsheet don't have more than one target modeled, so I can't give PvE numbers for AoE. Wrath CL was only 4% less in single target, and a lot better for AoE.
I liked Wrath CL too, but the devs decided it was not in their grand design anymore. I doubt the devs are going to justify their decisions in this matter.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Caltiom - 03-21-2012 04:33 PM
Just as an anectode: SimulationCraft allows you to simulate aoe or multi-dot fights. We tried to implement the Sage/Sorcerer class module with all the newest state of the art code ( unlike some old untended wow class modules ), so in theory everything should work just fine. I know I did some quick tests with Death Field a few months ago and it worked.
The problem here is just that configuring Aoe fights in SimC is not that easy and requires quite a bit knowledge about the textual configuration. And setting up multi-dot fights will additionally need a special priority list, no matter which Theorycrafting tool you use.
But maybe we'll at some points have Multi Dot reports like we did have them for Shadow Priests.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Aequitas - 03-21-2012 07:03 PM
I typically play full madness spec in PVP (Have been for the longest time and am comfortable with it). I know this might sound like an odd question but whenever i play voidstar I initially cast Affliction and Creeping Terror by quick tabbing on as many enemies as I can before choosing the target i want to burst (typically healers). Is there a set number of people that can be targetted by Afflicition and CT and CD at the same time? Just curious about this. Can i effectively have all 8 players dotted up as the first battle starts?
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 03-22-2012 01:19 AM
You can DoT up everyone with Affliction, the game engine can take that into account. Whether that is effective or not is situational. At least you get lots of Barrage procs.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - blackfrost - 03-22-2012 04:42 AM
With the current nerf to the lighting tree (LS went from 1300 crit to 900-1000) I switched to lighting/madness and went 13/28. I tried this build out for the first time and i have to say I really love this build (straight pve player) as my FL is doing 1k-1100 a tick (criting, 800-900 none crit) and Deathfeild 3k-4k a hit. Also Crushing Darkness is hitting good as well but enough of that, my problem is force management. With the lighting tree i never ran out of force but with this build I'm having to consume about half way in the fight (i.e. bonetrasher i had to consume 7 times to keep up). Just wondering how do everyone else manage their force? Am i missing something in the rotation? I really thought Sith Efficacy would help but it does somewhat but not that much. Pretty much my rotation is; I'm FL spamming and waiting for wrath procs and hitting LS when ever Crushing Darkness is on cool down.
I really hope I'm not missing something as i been reading that LS shouldn't even be used when wrath procs but i have nothing else that is instant and LS does a good bit of damage (1.9k). Thanks for any help in this matter. Oh fyi, I'm in full Tier 3 except my light saber (tier 2) and bracers (tier 2) if that helps any.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 03-22-2012 05:01 AM
(03-22-2012 04:42 AM)blackfrost Wrote: With the current nerf to the lighting tree (LS went from 1300 crit to 900-1000) I switched to lighting/madness and went 13/28. I tried this build out for the first time and i have to say I really love this build (straight pve player) as my FL is doing 1k-1100 a tick (criting, 800-900 none crit) and Deathfeild 3k-4k a hit. Also Crushing Darkness is hitting good as well but enough of that, my problem is force management. With the lighting tree i never ran out of force but with this build I'm having to consume about half way in the fight (i.e. bonetrasher i had to consume 7 times to keep up). Just wondering how do everyone else manage their force? Am i missing something in the rotation? I really thought Sith Efficacy would help but it does somewhat but not that much. Pretty much my rotation is; I'm FL spamming and waiting for wrath procs and hitting LS when ever Crushing Darkness is on cool down.
I really hope I'm not missing something as i been reading that LS shouldn't even be used when wrath procs but i have nothing else that is instant and LS does a good bit of damage (1.9k). Thanks for any help in this matter. Oh fyi, I'm in full Tier 3 except my light saber (tier 2) and bracers (tier 2) if that helps any.
There is no current or past nerf to Lightning Strike that is document. You need to read the first post on rotations, there is no reason to cast LS as Hybrid spec in PvE. Hint, don't cast Chain Lightning when you have less than 150 force.
Rakata is Tier 1.3, Columi is Tier 1.2. The Black Hole commendations set is Tier 2.
e: Oops, it is 150 force to not use CL.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Sith_Happens - 03-22-2012 07:19 AM
(03-22-2012 05:01 AM)frmorrison Wrote: Rakata is Tier 1.3, Columi is Tier 1.2. The Black Hole commendations set is Tier 2.
Yeah, the devs have been really confusing about that. Up until now, I don't think they've ever referred to any official tier numbers, so people have just considered Tionese/Centurion to be tier 1, Columi/Champion tier 2, and Rakata/Battlemaster tier 3. But now all of a sudden they're referring to Black Hole/Campaign/War Hero as "Tier 2" gear, with the existing sets presumably all being sublevels of Tier 1. Pretty sure that right now whenever a dev refers to "Tier 2" gear, about half the people on the forums think they mean Columi/Champion.
Also, does anyone else think that "Campaign" is just a really lame name for the new operations gear set? I was expecting them to keep up the theme of naming the sets after ancient Star Wars civilizations.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - blackfrost - 03-22-2012 07:51 AM
(03-22-2012 05:01 AM)frmorrison Wrote: There is no current or past nerf to Lightning Strike. You need to read the first post on rotations, there is no reason to cast LS as Hybrid spec in PvE. Hint, don't cast Chain Lightning when you have less than 100 force.
Rakata is Tier 1.3, Columi is Tier 1.2. The Black Hole commendations set is Tier 2.
Unless I'm missing something on the first post all I'm seeing is
"II. Rotation Priority List
Wrath
(if specced)
Wrath (if specced and >~150 Force remaining)"
Also there was a silent nerf to SI sorcerer and BH about a week ago. As far as the Tier gear i did not know about that and I'm sorry I miss interpreted that.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - CaseyTheRetard - 03-22-2012 08:01 AM
(03-22-2012 07:51 AM)blackfrost Wrote: Unless I'm missing something on the first post all I'm seeing is
"II. Rotation Priority List
Wrath
(if specced)
Wrath (if specced and >~150 Force remaining)"
Also there was a silent nerf to SI sorcerer and BH about a week ago. As far as the Tier gear i did not know about that and I'm sorry I miss interpreted that.
Looks like the forum is broken again - the ability names with tooltip links are gone. From Section I just before what you quoted:
Affliction > Death Field (w/ Deathmark) > Crushing Darkness > Creeping Terror (if specced) > Chain Lightning (if specced) > Force Lightning > Shock (w/ Chain Shock)
It's understood that CL is only used with a Wrath proc. Note that LS appears nowhere in that list. If you want to have Force at the end of a fight, only use CL when you have more force than the boss has health.
Please, elaborate on this stealth nerf and provide links to the testing - it's news to us.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 03-22-2012 08:15 AM
(03-22-2012 07:51 AM)blackfrost Wrote: Unless I'm missing something on the first post all I'm seeing is
"II. Rotation Priority List
Wrath
(if specced)
Wrath (if specced and >~150 Force remaining)"
Also there was a silent nerf to SI sorcerer and BH about a week ago. As far as the Tier gear i did not know about that and I'm sorry I miss interpreted that.
I forgot the forum is having issues with tooltips, there is a list but you can't see it.
Here is the priority list:
Affliction
Death Field (>~100 Force remaining)
Wrath Crushing Darkness
Creeping Terror (if specced)
Wrath Chain Lightning (if specced and >~150 Force remaining)
Force Lightning
Shock if you are moving and have more than 120 force