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+--- Thread: [ARCHIVE] 1.1.5 Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium (/thread-573.html)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Khadroth - 03-14-2012 03:55 AM
(03-14-2012 12:58 AM)Arasaka Wrote: For the ~6 dps you're probably better off with the Suffusion build for bigger AoE and a quicker DI.
Not necessarily.
It's a trade off that loses you instant lift/whirlwind (excellent on bonethasher adds) and better dot dmg (which can increase off target dmg like on fabricator if puzzle solving, gharj when island hopping, p2 Soa when dpsing mind traps, dpsing both Jarg and Sorno, and any situation involving adds where aoe will).
Suffusion spec nets you the healing improvement (no specific example of when this is helpful, could be any fight or no fight depending on how capable your healers are, so for me not at all because I have very good healers) and better aoe dmg (which helps on Gharj below 50%, Foreman Crusher adds, and Karagga's mouse droids).
That's why I'd like to see a more in depth break down, because honestly even if I'm not 16/25, I'm likely to do a 7/16/18 variant if 1 point of effusion proves sustainable for aoe. It nets you even more utility in both pve and pvp at the cost of a possibly unnecessary regen talent point and what mostly amounts to a trash aoe talent in tidal force/lightning storm.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Arasaka - 03-14-2012 04:51 AM
Agreed, it'll depend on the strategy you use for the bosses and how much reliance you have on the rest of your party to do their jobs. I've played both specs and dps wise they're comparable (dot vs 10% aoe is a wash single target) so as you point out it comes down to a choice of utility skills: instant lift/WW vs quicker heals+more trash dmg.
e.g. Bonethrasher, we completely ignore the cats and stay on the boss 100% (other than to kill the guards that get tossed off). The tank (in dps gear) just picks up the cats and we kill them after the boss is dead. Or Soa because we're carrying new members through HM and I need to off heal during the drops, or during phase 2 if both healers get cc'd (mind trap + toss).
Though if your sole responsibility is DPS, you should probably be going 0/13/28 which gets both high aoe dmg and instant ww. Or one of the other 31pt builds when 1.2 comes presuming double dip gets nerfed.
What kind of a more in depth break down would you like to see?
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - CaseyTheRetard - 03-14-2012 04:57 AM
(03-14-2012 03:55 AM)Khadroth Wrote: [...Suffusion loses dot damage...]
Using Current Simulationcraft numbers, 0.13.28 does 3696 damage per Affliction, and 7.18.16 does 2624; both cast Affliction about every 22 seconds. So for every extra target you maintain Affliction on, you gain (3696-2624)/22 = 48.7 DPS with 0.13.28 over 7.18.16.
0.13.28 does 104 DPS with CL, 7.18.16 260 DPS. So for every target up to 5 within 8 meters of the primary, 7.18.16 will do 260 - 104 = 156 more DPS than 0.13.28.
0.13.28 does 60 more DPS single-target than 7.18.16; woohoo Deathmark!
If there is 1 boss, n adds, k of which are tanked within 8 yards of the boss, then 0.13.28 will do roughly 60 + 49*n - 156*k more DPS than 7.18.16. Notably, 0.13.28 comes out ahead iff 60 + 49 * n > 156 * k.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 03-14-2012 05:34 AM
Since k can be represented as p*n, p being the percent of adds within range, that boils down to:
60 > (156x - 49)n
Since we actually care about the crossover point, this gives us:
60 = 156pn - 49n
60/n = 156p - 49
p = (60/n + 49)/156
So long as k/n > p, 7/18/16 is better. For various n's:
n = 1: k = 1
1 < n < 6: k = 2
If you're not keeping Affliction up on all targets, 7/18/16 is better at all n > 0, so long as k > 0 as well.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Khadroth - 03-14-2012 05:58 AM
(03-14-2012 04:57 AM)CaseyTheRetard Wrote: Using Current Simulationcraft numbers, 0.13.28 does 3696 damage per Affliction, and 7.18.16 does 2624; both cast Affliction about every 22 seconds. So for every extra target you maintain Affliction on, you gain (3696-2624)/22 = 48.7 DPS with 0.13.28 over 7.18.16.
0.13.28 does 104 DPS with CL, 7.18.16 260 DPS. So for every target up to 5 within 8 meters of the primary, 7.18.16 will do 260 - 104 = 156 more DPS than 0.13.28.
0.13.28 does 60 more DPS single-target than 7.18.16; woohoo Deathmark!
If there is 1 boss, n adds, k of which are tanked within 8 yards of the boss, then 0.13.28 will do roughly 60 + 49*n - 156*k more DPS than 7.18.16. Notably, 0.13.28 comes out ahead iff 60 + 49 * n > 156 * k.
Well that's kind of helpful and more what I'm looking for. But specifically I'd like to know about the difference with the effusion variant (16/25, since it loses some dot dmg from 13/28). Also just how well 1 point in effusion can sustain an aoe build like 7/16/18. Honestly I'd do this myself in simcraft but I'm at work atm.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Anarash - 03-15-2012 03:42 AM
Any progress on gear for this thread (and is the intent to collect only the optimal list from the final Ops or to indicate sources for gear in preparation for Ops)? I'm relatively new to HM FPs (ten to a dozen complete with no luck on drops) and when I started looking at Tionese and Columni gear on the vendors at Fleet I was distressed to see how much they weighted toward Alacrity (a stat that is arguably least valuable for Madness Sorcerors). Wondering what gear people are using for Ops and whether or not DPS Sorcerors are just sucking it up and eating the Alacrity or have found ways to swap it for Crit/Surge/Power.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 03-15-2012 04:42 AM
(03-15-2012 03:42 AM)Anarash Wrote: Wondering what gear people are using for Ops and whether or not DPS Sorcerors are just sucking it up and eating the Alacrity or have found ways to swap it for Crit/Surge/Power.
I doubt there will be pre-Ops BiS list gear made, at least not by me. Most people use the Tier gear and then replace some of the Alacrity Enhancements with Power/Surge (found on the GTN for level 51 or IA Enforcer Gloves/Helm for level 56). Alacrity is weak, but due to the DR on other stats the BiS list has over 250 of it.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Anarash - 03-15-2012 04:47 AM
(03-15-2012 04:42 AM)frmorrison Wrote: I doubt there will be pre-Ops BiS list gear made, at least not by me. Most people use the Tier gear and then replace some of the Alacrity Enhancements with Power/Surge (found on the GTN for level 51 or IA Enforcer Gloves/Helm for level 56). Alacrity is weak, but due to the DR on other stats the BiS list has over 250 of it.
Is there a BiS list (here at sithwarrior) right now that just has not made it into this thread? I saw the discussion thread below but since I am at work I have not made it to Mr. Robot yet to look at and grok the information there...
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 03-15-2012 08:15 AM
Quote:Is there a BiS list (here at sithwarrior) right now that just has not made it into this thread? I saw the discussion thread below but since I am at work I have not made it to Mr. Robot yet to look at and grok the information there...
Since we're still debating the BIS list, no, I have not transplanted it over to this thread yet, and would be unlikely to at this point even if there were concensus, since I'm going to need to completely revamp this guide for 1.2 anyway (both per site policy, and because I'm going to be merging in the Lightning guide that Sujin seems to have abandoned).
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Spren - 03-17-2012 03:40 PM
(in regard to 1.2 notes)
Not sure what to make of the changes overall. On one hand, no mention of fixing Lightning Barrage which is cool. But clearly they brought down Force Lightning a bit. The change to Wrath makes me go O.o - I'm glad it will effect Crushing Darkness's dot portion, but only being able to use it on two abilities? I figured this patch would try to emphasize 31 point talents more and it didn't. Also annoyed that they made Electric Induction effect Affliction, but not all those other abilities that is doesn't.
Oh and while they mentioned DR changes to Expertise "and other stats" they didn't tell us what they were/are.
1.2 changes in summery for 13/28 build:
Shock doing 6% more dmg
Affliction doing 6% more dmg
Force Lightning doing 6% less dmg
Force Lightning critting 4% less
Crushing Darkness getting the 20% bonus from Wrath to dot procs...
( I figure if the below notes are what we get when 1.2 goes live, Chain Lightning will be crap in the current build. Better to grab 1% crit from Corruption I guess )
----
Electric Induction now correctly affects Affliction.
Disintegration now increases the critical chance of Force Lightning and Lightning Strike by 3% per point.
Calcify now increases the damage dealt by Shock, Force Lightning, and Affliction by 2% per point.
Wrath now affects Lightning Strike and Crushing Darkness only. Crushing Darkness's periodic damage now benefits from the 20% damage bonus when it is used to consume the Wrath buff.
The Force in Balance no longer heals the caster if no targets are hit.