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+--- Thread: [ARCHIVE] 1.1.5 Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium (/thread-573.html)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 03-13-2012 04:12 PM
Quote:who really knows without combatlogs
Seriously, I'm going to start infracting people that post comments like this, I've disproven it more times than I can count. For the last time, combat logs are not necessary to definitely demonstrate relative dps potential, and in fact, due to the fact that combat logs have significant statistical variance and yet are taken as gospel truth by a large portion of the community, they tend to muddy the topic more than clarify it.
On topic, when I simmed it the other day, 7/18/16 was outperforming 0/17/24 by a percent or two, and has about 10% more AoE damage output for trash and adds. On the +1 for that spec (since it's technically 7/17/16 +1), I strongly recommend Lightning Storm for CL procs while spamming Force Storm (they are a rather significant AoE dps boost).
7/18/16 is actually the spec I'm running right now for raiding, as we're not really having any issues with enrage timers, and I judge the 10-15% increase in AoE dps over 13/28 to be a justifiable enough reason to sacrifice about 4% single-target damage.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Arasaka - 03-13-2012 05:15 PM
(03-13-2012 04:12 PM)Kor Wrote: ...
On topic, when I simmed it the other day, 7/18/16 was outperforming 0/17/24 by a percent or two, and has about 10% more AoE damage output for trash and adds. On the +1 for that spec (since it's technically 7/17/16 +1), I strongly recommend Lightning Storm for CL procs while spamming Force Storm (they are a rather significant AoE dps boost).
...
Do you find Force Storm viable in ops (i.e. do you use it much)? Seems to be ~10 target capped (or maybe that's just a graphical glitch for fly text?) and does low damage. The big plus to it that I can see is that it can stun normal/weak mobs, but unfortunately most of the clumps you'd actually worry about seem to come in strong/elite/champion packs.
Realistically there aren't may other options for the +1; maybe 1/2 Haunted Dreams for a quicker WW? Though again hm ops, most things are cc immune...
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - sipylus - 03-13-2012 06:53 PM
(02-18-2012 08:00 PM)Kor Wrote: Ouch, so puts the 31-point specs technically on top of the heap, but 3 of the 4 primary specs (31-lightning, 31-madness, and 13/28) well within the error bars of each other. I like it. Sadly, it's the deathknell for the Effusion build, but oh well.
Sorry to necro this post, but I was wondering if the 'Effusion build' referred to is the 0/17/24 build, and if so why it in particular is allegedly* going to be hosed, more so than the 0/13/28.
* - (assuming we can infer a change to dps mechanics from the reported change in healing mechanics, which seems like a fairly safe assumption)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Khadroth - 03-13-2012 10:34 PM
(03-13-2012 04:12 PM)Kor Wrote: On topic, when I simmed it the other day, 7/18/16 was outperforming 0/17/24 by a percent or two, and has about 10% more AoE damage output for trash and adds. On the +1 for that spec (since it's technically 7/17/16 +1), I strongly recommend Lightning Storm for CL procs while spamming Force Storm (they are a rather significant AoE dps boost).
7/18/16 is actually the spec I'm running right now for raiding, as we're not really having any issues with enrage timers, and I judge the 10-15% increase in AoE dps over 13/28 to be a justifiable enough reason to sacrifice about 4% single-target damage.
Out of curiousity what difference would a 16/25 variant make in those numbers? (i.e. only 1 point in effusion since it seems to still keep your force pool full). Basically I guess the question is would the extra point in Assertion/Lingering Nightmares be enough to bring the effusion variant back in the running against some of the other specs?
It's something I've been meaning to try but just haven't had the time outside raids to do.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 03-14-2012 12:27 AM
Quote:Do you find Force Storm viable in ops (i.e. do you use it much)? Seems to be ~10 target capped (or maybe that's just a graphical glitch for fly text?) and does low damage. The big plus to it that I can see is that it can stun normal/weak mobs, but unfortunately most of the clumps you'd actually worry about seem to come in strong/elite/champion packs.
Realistically there aren't may other options for the +1; maybe 1/2 Haunted Dreams for a quicker WW? Though again hm ops, most things are cc immune...
I use Force Storm only when I have Lightning Storm skilled, and only on Packs that have at least 5 targets in them that all have roughly the same amount of HP (so therefore focusing FL on one and using Wrath on CL would just kill one target faster). It's very rare to see more than 8-10 targets in an AoE situation (the only pack I can remember off the top of my head is one of the robot droid trash pulls after the first boss in EV, when all the uglies spawn with them).
Quote:Sorry to necro this post, but I was wondering if the 'Effusion build' referred to is the 0/17/24 build, and if so why it in particular is allegedly* going to be hosed, more so than the 0/13/28.
* - (assuming we can infer a change to dps mechanics from the reported change in healing mechanics, which seems like a fairly safe assumption)
Actually, I believe the Effusion build in Simcraft is 7/18/16. However, it isn't being hosed more than 13/28, it's simply the only other spec that is being hosed (well, 0/25/16 too, but honestly, that's only included in Simcraft to show how bad it is). 13/28 and 7/18/16 are both taking a hit from the double-dip nerf (which, btw, still isn't confirmed!), but neither 31-Lightning or 31-Madness are because neither of those has both Lightning Barrage and Madness. Thus 13/28 and 7/18/16 both move down relative to the two 31 specs, putting 13/28 basically dead-even with 31-Madness and 31-Lightning, but leaving 7/18/16 (which is currently even with both 31's) still 4-5% behind 13/28, as it is currently. This puts it 4-5% behind 3 top-end viable specs, meaning it will likely serve only as an esoteric AoE spec role rather than a common single-target role.
Quote:Out of curiousity what difference would a 16/25 variant make in those numbers? (i.e. only 1 point in effusion since it seems to still keep your force pool full). Basically I guess the question is would the extra point in Assertion/Lingering Nightmares be enough to bring the effusion variant back in the running against some of the other specs?
It's something I've been meaning to try but just haven't had the time outside raids to do.
I've not yet simmed it. I'll see what the difference is a bit later tonight (unless Casey or Calt beats me to it)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Arasaka - 03-14-2012 12:58 AM
(03-14-2012 12:27 AM)Kor Wrote:Quote:Out of curiousity what difference would a 16/25 variant make in those numbers? (i.e. only 1 point in effusion since it seems to still keep your force pool full). Basically I guess the question is would the extra point in Assertion/Lingering Nightmares be enough to bring the effusion variant back in the running against some of the other specs?
It's something I've been meaning to try but just haven't had the time outside raids to do.
I've not yet simmed it. I'll see what the difference is a bit later tonight (unless Casey or Calt beats me to it)
Using my gear since that's what I've got plugged into the sim (quick runs, only 1k sims):
Suffusion: 7/18/16: 1552dps
0/16/25: 1558dps (note: 1/2 effusion does remain unlimited force)
0/17/24: 1547dps
For the ~6 dps you're probably better off with the Suffusion build for bigger AoE and a quicker DI.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 03-14-2012 01:14 AM
That is nice to know that 1 point in Effusion is good enough your force pool high. I also have played the Effusion build 7/x/x the past month, it is my favorite.
Regarding 1.2 changes, I read that everyone will get a free respec in 1.2, so I assume there will be talent changes. The patch notes should give more information.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Spren - 03-14-2012 03:29 AM
(03-14-2012 01:14 AM)frmorrison Wrote: Regarding 1.2 changes, I read that everyone will get a free respec in 1.2, so I assume there will be talent changes. The patch notes should give more information.
I haven't checked recently, because I never respec, but some of my guildies were doing it every week for raiding (when we needed 1 tank or 2). What they found is that the cost reset every week. So even though it would say, "This will cost 50000" it really cost either 0, or the first base cost (1300?).
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 03-14-2012 03:42 AM
It is true that after 7 days without respecing you get a free respec, but no matter what day it is since your last respec you get a free one on that upcoming patch day in April.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Thepixel - 03-14-2012 03:51 AM
(03-14-2012 03:42 AM)frmorrison Wrote: It is true that after 7 days without respecing you get a free respec, but no matter what day it is since your last respec you get a free one on that upcoming patch day in April.
Yes, it has been stated that in 1.2 all skillpoints will be reset due to class changes.
I've had to deal with that before when they made an ability unusable (induction) after a patch and didn't refund skillpoints, resulting in me paying 100k for a respec.