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+--- Thread: [ARCHIVE] 1.1.5 Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium (/thread-573.html)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Ra'ath - 02-14-2012 11:45 PM
Yeah of course, hopefully when they bring in the combat logs in a future patch (alledgedly they are) it will become easier to test. I wasn't complaining about the sheets, they are well beyond anything I could do at the moment
Like I say I just wanted to check if the elemental/internal relics were better than the energy/kinetic ones. Using a reduction of 44.4%, and the values from my relics (they seem to scale slightly with some kind of damage as the main tank in my guild is seeing different figures on the same trinkets) I get to (1-0.444)*224=124.544 damage on proc with the energy one, compared with the advertised 168 damage on proc with the elemental one. It would require a boss armor reduction as low as 25% to make the two equal I believe, assuming these relics abide by the normal rules.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - MagicSN - 02-15-2012 12:15 AM
I am currently trying to get my theorycrafting tool "Project Shield" support Balance Sages. Some questions (I do not play a sage myselves...):
- What is the force regen rate of Sages?
- Does Alacrity modify one of the following:
* How fast channeling ticks/amount of ticks
* GCD
* How fast dots tick/number of dots
- If you use a Presence of Mind/Wrath Procc, how much time is "lost", till you can cast the next spell... one GCD? Or how is the timing?
- How does this work with that procc which doubles the speed of tk throw's channeling?
- The talent which regenerates force by 1% when your tkthrow deals damage,
how OFTEN do you get the 1% ? Once per channel? Once per tick (that would be 4
ticks, right?) ?
- That talent which gives you 9% cheaper casts, are the cost rounded up/down/mathematically?
- Does Mental Scarring only apply to the dot-component of Mind Crush or both to the dot component and the non-dot component ?
- Does Telekinetic Effusion Stack, or does a new Proc just renew it to "the next two"?
Thanks in advance.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - shay - 02-15-2012 02:51 AM
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: I am currently trying to get my theorycrafting tool "Project Shield" support Balance Sages. Some questions (I do not play a sage myselves...):
- What is the force regen rate of Sages?
i sadly do not know the natural force regen rate 8(
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - Does Alacrity modify one of the following:
* How fast channeling ticks/amount of ticks
* GCD
* How fast dots tick/number of dots
alacrity affects 2 things, if a spell is channeled or has a cast time alacrity will affect those cast times as well as the spells gcd.
alacrity does not affect the gcd of instant cast spells nor dots that is left on the target
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - If you use a Presence of Mind/Wrath Procc, how much time is "lost", till you can cast the next spell... one GCD? Or how is the timing?
time lost is 1 gcd or 1.5s
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - How does this work with that procc which doubles the speed of tk throw's channeling?
i'm pretty sure this mainly has to do with client side to server lag, as the proc is not eaten until the 1st spell is finished casting, so if you spam your 2nd tk throw fast enough the server sees it as another fast cast, this is just a guess, kor may know the exact reason
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - The talent which regenerates force by 1% when your tkthrow deals damage,
how OFTEN do you get the 1% ? Once per channel? Once per tick (that would be 4
ticks, right?) ?
yes once per tick, so 4 total per tk throw cast
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - That talent which gives you 9% cheaper casts, are the cost rounded up/down/mathematically?
i believe it's rounded down not up
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - Does Mental Scarring only apply to the dot-component of Mind Crush or both to the dot component and the non-dot component ?
only the dot component
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - Does Telekinetic Effusion Stack, or does a new Proc just renew it to "the next two"?
it does not stack, it just renews
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - TheDarkness - 02-15-2012 03:36 AM
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - What is the force regen rate of Sages?8 force per second.
(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - That talent which gives you 9% cheaper casts, are the cost rounded up/down/mathematically?Additionally, this talent doesn't apply to a great deal of things you'd think it might.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - TheDarkness - 02-15-2012 02:41 PM
How does the 2-piece pvp set do compared to the 4 piece normal set?
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - MagicSN - 02-15-2012 06:57 PM
(02-15-2012 02:51 AM)shay Wrote: alacrity affects 2 things, if a spell is channeled or has a cast time alacrity will affect those cast times as well as the spells gcd.
Someone else (by private message) claimed the GCD is only affected if the spell has cast time. Who is right? ^^
Quote:i'm pretty sure this mainly has to do with client side to server lag, as the proc is not eaten until the 1st spell is finished casting, so if you spam your 2nd tk throw fast enough the server sees it as another fast cast, this is just a guess, kor may know the exact reason
I am thinking if I should include this behaviour into my simulation. What do sages think about it? (meaning if the simulated sage DOES abuse this behaviour or not).
Quote:yes once per tick, so 4 total per tk throw cast
Ok.
Quote:(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - That talent which gives you 9% cheaper casts, are the cost rounded up/down/mathematically?
i believe it's rounded down not up
Someone else claimed "up". Can someone test the values for the relevant spells in the priority list, maybe?
Quote:(02-15-2012 12:15 AM)MagicSN Wrote: - Does Mental Scarring only apply to the dot-component of Mind Crush or both to the dot component and the non-dot component ?
only the dot component
I also found out now how to separate initial damage from dot dmg. Will include this soon.
Thanks for the answers. It might be some time till I incorporated everything. As the current sage code deals with several specs it is - complicated, and want to be careful not to make a mistake. Also there is still some issue in the framework code of the whole thing I need to fix these days. But should have everything in hopefully still this week.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - MagicSN - 02-15-2012 08:28 PM
In Force Supression, does "next 10 periodic abilities" means "next 10 casts of dot spells", or does it mean "next 10 dot ticks"?
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 02-15-2012 09:46 PM
Quote:The main problem is that without a combat log this is not very easy to test. Someone would have to calculate theorical damage value for spells with his gear before a raid evening and then compare it to the actual damage done, with floating combat text standing near a boss ( and without sacrificing his raid performance ^^ ). Maybe also compare it with a internal damage spell to check that there are no errors in the calculation.
The formulae are sound. It's actually remarkably easy to test as a Sorcerer, since Force Lightning has no variance in it's damage magnitude. Next time I'm in a raid (Thursday or Sunday this week) I'll test it.
Quote:- How does this work with that procc which doubles the speed of tk throw's channeling?
The reason double-dip works is because currently the game is reading buffs and effects when the spell is queued, rather than when it is actually cast. This means that if you queue a second Force Lightning before the first hasted one is complete (which is what actually triggers the removal of the buff), the second will register as having the buff as well, as the buff was present when the second one was queued.
Quote:- That talent which gives you 9% cheaper casts, are the cost rounded up/down/mathematically?
Costs are rounded up to the next integer value after the modifier. Effectively a CEIL function. Even if the modified force cost is 27.01, it will end up costing 28 force. Does not affect Affliction, Crushing Darkness, Creeping Terror, or Static Barrier, and possibly a few others I've forgotten. For example, Force Lightning has a base cost of 30 force. Modified cost would be 30*0.91 = 27.3, which would normally round down. However, in-game cost is listed as 28 force.
Quote:- Does Mental Scarring only apply to the dot-component of Mind Crush or both to the dot component and the non-dot component ?
It's also worth knowing that the +20% damage from Wrath/Presence of Mind only affects the direct damage portion.
Quote:someone else (by private message) claimed the GCD is only affected if the spell has cast time. Who is right? ^^
Alacrity affects the GCD if and only if the ability being cast is a cast time or channeled spell (that hasn't been modified to be instant by an effect like Wrath/PoM), and the modified cast/channel time is less than 1.5 seconds. In that case, the GCD is equal to the modified (sub-1.5 second) cast time. In all other cases, the GCD is 1.5 seconds. This also, btw, applies to cast time reductions from talents. For example, 1/2 Haunted Dreams reduces the cast time of Whirlwind by 50% to 1.0 seconds. If cast with 1/2 in this talent, it will have a 1.0 second GCD as well as cast (further modified by Alacrity).
Quote:I am thinking if I should include this behaviour into my simulation. What do sages think about it? (meaning if the simulated sage DOES abuse this behaviour or not).
Until such time as Bioware indicate they'll be fixing it, I would model it. It's a fairly noticeable portion of Madness/Balance hybrid spec dps.
Quote:In Force Supression, does "next 10 periodic abilities" means "next 10 casts of dot spells", or does it mean "next 10 dot ticks"?
Next 10 ticks. Can affect and be consumed by any Sorc DoTs on the target (I believe even if cast by Assassins, though I believe their Assassin-specific DoTs like Lightning Discharge cannot), not just yours. DoT ticks can also consume and benefit from multiple Deathmark effects present on the target at a time, with each Deathmark losing a stack and adding 20% (additive) increase to the DoT tick in question.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - TheDarkness - 02-16-2012 03:03 AM
Over in the Sniper thread, they have it figured how much Crit rating you want relative to how much Surge rating you have (as the effectiveness of both is related).
Is that something that can be learned for Sorcerers?
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - MagicSN - 02-16-2012 03:17 AM
Thanks for all the helpful explanations. I will need some time to fix the code, though (I should have thought earlier of how I will implement Dots... it was really complicated, especially with the simulation combat log I have recently implemented).
I put out 2.1 Alpha, but it is rather unfinished right now (for example completely ignores alacrity currently - one thing after the other).