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+--- Thread: [ARCHIVE] 1.1.5 Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium (/thread-573.html)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Storm68 - 02-09-2012 08:02 PM
(02-08-2012 06:25 PM)Kor Wrote: Our current version of Simcraft, which I would argue is by nature a far more rigorous and trusted sim, is showing 13/28, 31-Lightning, and 31-Madness all within about 3% of each other, 13/28 in the lead, followed by Lightning, then Madness. We've yet to insert 25/16 or 7/18/16.
You didnt mention 0/23/18 and where it stands in the "dps tree", is it a viable pve alternative to 0/13/28 or as someone put it " a gimped version of 0/25/16" ?
Obvious question is will Forked Lightning give me a bigger dps boost over losing Death Field and the extra time on my 2 other DoT's?
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 02-09-2012 08:43 PM
Quote:I have an attack that does D damage non-crit, and my crit multiplier is C. Average damage with:
0% crit is (1 + 0C)D = D
1% crit is (1 + 0.01C)D
90% crit is (1 + 0.9C)D
91% crit is (1 + 0.91C)D
Going from 0% to 1% crit chance I gain (1 + 0.01C)D - D = 0.01CD damage. Going from 90% to 91% crit chance I gain (1 + 0.91C)D - (1 + 0.9C)D = 0.01CD damage.
That's not a diminishing return, it's a constant return.
That simply demonstrates that the absolute magnitude of the gained damage is the same (ie. if you gained 15 damage from 0% to 1%, you'll also gain 15 damage from 90% to 91%.
However, the percentage increase in damage from 1% crit is given by:
(1 + (Crit + 0.01)*Mult) / (1 + Crit*Mult)
Assuming, for the sake of example, a 150% crit multiplier, 0% to 1% is a 0.5000% increase in damage output. However, 90% to 91% is a 0.3448% increase (68.96% of the benefit). this effect is amplified the higher your crit multiplier is. 0% to 1% at 200% multiplier is a 1.0000% increase, while 90% to 91% is a 0.5236%, just barely more than half the benefit that it was at 0%.
It's not nearly as punitive as the DR on crit rating, but it still has an effect. At 35% crit chance raid buffed and 30% Surge, for example, 1% additional crit percentage is worth 78.1250% as much as it would be if you have 0% crit chance.
Quote:You didnt mention 0/23/18 and where it stands in the "dps tree", is it a viable pve alternative to 0/13/28 or as someone put it " a gimped version of 0/25/16" ?
Obvious question is will Forked Lightning give me a bigger dps boost over losing Death Field and the extra time on my 2 other DoT's?
Simc is showing 0/25/16 as being 6.8% or 14.3% behind 0/13/28, depending on whether you use Force Lightning or Lightning Strike (respectively) as your filler. 0/23/18 is even worse.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - CaseyTheRetard - 02-10-2012 01:12 AM
(02-09-2012 08:43 PM)Kor Wrote: However, the percentage increase in damage from 1% crit is given by:
I'm well aware. However, looking at relative increases is tangent to the question and can only cause confusion in the vast majority of readers that don't understand the math. If I claimed
has diminishing returns since
decreases as x gets larger, would you agree?
The function we are evaluating here is damage done, or perhaps DPS. The change in DPS going from 0% to 1% crit is the same as going from 99% to 100% crit; that's not a diminishing return. We should not value critical chance less as we get more critical chance, although it may cause us to value other stats more.
(02-09-2012 08:55 AM)Khadroth Wrote:(02-09-2012 01:41 AM)CaseyTheRetard Wrote: Is there a problem with FiB and Mental Alacrity?
Not seperately that I saw, but I couldn't get them to both work in the same spec (0/25/16) for a simulation, though again maybe it's just my own ignorance.
We have 0/25/16 as a "builtin" profile now. Although it hasn't been pushed to release yet, you can see report results for Jedi_Sage_Momentum (0/25/16). It does use both FiB and MA.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - skorpion - 02-10-2012 11:02 PM
is there a profile for 7/18/16 build? I'd like to now by how much its trailing behind a 13/28, and 31 point lightning.
another question: I read somewhere in this thread that full lightning is not trailing behind by much, I'm tempted to try a 7/32/2 build. how would it fare?
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Khadroth - 02-10-2012 11:39 PM
So it seems Surge rating is taking a hit in 1.1.3.
Quote:Surge rating has been re-balanced. It now reaches diminishing returns the same way as other damage ratings, and its per point damage contribution has been reduced by approximately 10%.
How exactly was it reaching diminishing returns differently than other stats though? Or do they simply mean that it had a higher threshold (50%) than the other stats? Regardless I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on the effect of such a change.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Alratan - 02-11-2012 12:25 AM
See the SW:TOR formula thread for discussions of Surge itself.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 02-11-2012 04:21 AM
(02-10-2012 11:02 PM)skorpion Wrote: is there a profile for 7/18/16 build? I'd like to now by how much its trailing behind a 13/28, and 31 point lightning.
another question: I read somewhere in this thread that full lightning is not trailing behind by much, I'm tempted to try a 7/32/2 build. how would it fare?
The spreadsheet has the 7/18/16 build behind 13/28 by about 4%. Fully Lightning is like 3% less dps. Note if you are Republic, the 7/18/16 may not work since TK Wave doesn't seem to get the 10% boost in damage.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 02-11-2012 06:12 AM
http://sithwarrior.com/forums/attachment.php?aid=200
Quote:is there a profile for 7/18/16 build? I'd like to now by how much its trailing behind a 13/28, and 31 point lightning.
Current version of simcraft shows it as 4.3% behind 13/28.
Quote:another question: I read somewhere in this thread that full lightning is not trailing behind by much, I'm tempted to try a 7/32/2 build. how would it fare?
Lightning is almost dead even with 7/18/16 (1219 instead of 1220 dps). However, 3/31/7 is generally regarded as superior to a Force Suffusion containing 7/32/2 build. You can always find the current simulationcraft results at SimulationCraft.org. Here's the current version results:
http://www.simulationcraft.org/swtor/111/Sage_Sorcerer_111.html
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - CaseyTheRetard - 02-11-2012 07:46 AM
(02-10-2012 11:02 PM)skorpion Wrote: I read somewhere in this thread that full lightning is not trailing behind by much, I'm tempted to try a 7/32/2 build. how would it fare?
Better than I expected:
![[Image: resultsf.png]](http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/8601/resultsf.png)
You trade 10% crit chance to LS and 12% FL damage for 10% CL damage. Considering that Lightning builds use CL on Lightning Storm - which procs no where near as often as Wrath - that ends up being a net loss of about 2.5%. It's not as large of a loss as my intuition led me to suspect. Probably a viable variant of the Lightning playstyle for AoE-intensive uses.
(Full results here)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Saylin - 02-12-2012 03:44 AM
I tried checking out the site but it appears that non of the links for the specs are working properly.
How is the Lightning Effusion Build comparing to the others?