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+--- Thread: [ARCHIVE] 1.1.5 Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium (/thread-573.html)
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 01-26-2012 12:56 PM
Quote:Is Lightning Strike worth using on Wrath procs in a force intensive fight when you've otherwise just got a proc hanging around?
No. LS's DPCT with Wrath is still only 75-80% that of Force Lightning. Never worth using.
Also, if you're spamming Force Lightning, it will start re-channeling immediately thanks to the queue system.
Quote:I've heard so much about double dipping on Wrath procs but I'm just not seeing it in game even when I put my queue to 1second+.
Can't double-dip on Wrath, only on Lightning Barrage.
Quote:What I do often see is a cast bar on the second FL that says 1.4 seconds (I've got a bit of Alacrity) and goes down in that time but I have the full animation of the FL (or a borked animation as often as not) and a delay on the following cast. I've also occasionally seen a full 3 second cast bar cut off after half the time when I've had a FL use a Wrath proc but the cast bar displayed a normal one instead.
You need to hit Force Lightning (often several times) within [queue length] of the end of the channel. Thus if you have your queue length at 0.5 seconds, and you have 0 alacrity, your FL will cast in 1.5 seconds. At 1.0 seconds or after (but before about 1.4 seconds), if you hit FL (I hit it several times to make sure), the next cast will gain the Barrage benefit as well.
I can 100% confirm that you can double-dip the actual cast, not just the cast bar. The cast-bar-only version occurs when you try to double-dip, but trigger the second FL too late, tricking the UI into thinking you double-dipped, but not the server.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - pingpong - 01-26-2012 01:02 PM
Apologies, of course it's Barrage >.<
Well, I'm a well-trained key spammer from my WoW days but I'll have another go tomorrow night at achieving some true double dips. Thanks for the input.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Exemplar - 01-27-2012 12:05 AM
(01-26-2012 04:33 AM)TheDarkness Wrote: whereas Force Lightning->Force Lightning has a pause between the two.As stated, queuing the 2nd FL should prevent any pause, but the game can sometimes appear to have a pause.
Caveat: I have not played since this week's patch which supposedly resolved animation delays for many people. Entirely possible this situation no longer occurs.
As of the last time I played there would occasionally be a visual delay on a queued 2nd FL. However, when the visual delay caught up, so would damage - I would see 2 or 3 bursts of floating combat text appear within tenths of a second.
Example:
Time zero: FL ends (last tick of damage applied).
Time 0.1: nothing doing. Not pressing anything on keyboard.
Time 0.2: nothing doing. Not pressing anything on keyboard.
Time 0.3: FL begins.
Time 0.5-0.7: 2 or 3 ticks of damage near simultaneously.
Time 3.0: FL #2 ends and #3 begins (or you use another ability).
3 seconds total since the spell should begin, all damage produced as expected, but the appearance of delay and less-than-full cast.
I find that TOR responds well to spam keypress during queue phase, then patiently wait and do not press an attack until your next queue window becomes available.
P.S. Pretty sure I can definitively say Cloud Mind is not a 25% threat reduction (as I had stated I had read). I would guess it is a flat value reduction. This flat value does not appear to be sufficient to "fade" threat off you if you have pulled - the tank must actively taunt to return the target to them. If taunt mechanics are anything like WoW, this means tank either duplicates your present threat or your threat + some value. As such Cloud Mind after a pull would simply reduce tank threat marginally. It should instead be used as a precautionary threat reducer prior to pulls, then more or less on CD (outside of any threat wipe bosses).
Threat in this game seems to need some fine tuning.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Ra'ath - 01-27-2012 01:11 AM
According to TORhead's effect details concerning Cloud Mind, it seems Bioware made a mistake with it, since TORhead lists "ModifyThreat: AmountPercent=>-0.25", whereas Extrication (which I have noticed actually seems to do something to my threat when someone uses it on me, unlike when I use Cloud Mind) lists "ModifyThreat: AmountPercent=>-25". I had thought it was fixed in a recent patch (I don't remember which one), but after subsequent deaths from threat it would appear not. Of course, with all of this I assume TORhead to have the details correct, which it may not be.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - TheDarkness - 01-27-2012 03:29 AM
(01-26-2012 08:37 AM)frmorrison Wrote: First off, casting Force Lightning will cause you to gain force over the channel; compared to casting Lightning Strike will reduce your force. If you set your spell queue to 1 second (default is 0.5 seconds), you will not have much of a pause between FL casts. Just hit your FL key when there is less than 1 second left in the channel.Force is practically infinite even inserting other spells.
Also, I'm aware of the spell queue options. There's still a substantial pause between consecutive Force Lightnings. If queue an instant spell between them, the pause between the 2 Force Lightnings is only 1 GCD, as the instant spell goes out instantly, and the second Force Lightning starts as soon as the GCD is up.
I was asking if it would be more DPS just sitting idle during the animation pause on consecutive FLs, or if it would be more inserting Lightning Strike.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 01-27-2012 04:25 AM
(01-27-2012 03:29 AM)TheDarkness Wrote: Force is practically infinite even inserting other spells.
Also, I'm aware of the spell queue options. There's still a substantial pause between consecutive Force Lightnings. If queue an instant spell between them, the pause between the 2 Force Lightnings is only 1 GCD, as the instant spell goes out instantly, and the second Force Lightning starts as soon as the GCD is up.
I was asking if it would be more DPS just sitting idle during the animation pause on consecutive FLs, or if it would be more inserting Lightning Strike.
Force is limited if you cast the wrong spells. Try casting Shock and Chain Lightning on cooldown if you want to run out of force fast.
See the post above yours to describe the issue you are having with Force Lightning queuing. I used to have the issue where it appears I wasn't casting but I really was a display issue; note the latest patch made appear better, but is isn't 100% displaying correct yet.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 01-27-2012 04:37 AM
Quote:According to TORhead's effect details concerning Cloud Mind, it seems Bioware made a mistake with it, since TORhead lists "ModifyThreat: AmountPercent=>-0.25", whereas Extrication (which I have noticed actually seems to do something to my threat when someone uses it on me, unlike when I use Cloud Mind) lists "ModifyThreat: AmountPercent=>-25". I had thought it was fixed in a recent patch (I don't remember which one), but after subsequent deaths from threat it would appear not. Of course, with all of this I assume TORhead to have the details correct, which it may not be.
Good catch! So basically, it reduces our threat by a quarter of a percent. I just double-checked in the game files, same values for each still. In other words, Cloud Mind is functionally useless. I've submitted a ticket about it.
Quote:I was asking if it would be more DPS just sitting idle during the animation pause on consecutive FLs, or if it would be more inserting Lightning Strike.
The animation pause doesn't affect actual damage rate, so no. So long as you're queuing the next FL properly, there's never a reason to use LS.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - pingpong - 01-27-2012 05:12 AM
Some very quick and dirty testing on "Force Suffusion" (Corruption talent increasing AoE by 10%)
These numbers were the first 6 non crits done with a bare bones build just 5/11/0 (enough to get chain lightning)
1258 1291
1293 1244
1274 1256
And these are after putting 2 points into Force Suffusion:
1375 1375
1409 1386
1378 1409
Done on a single target, not chaining onto anything.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 01-27-2012 05:43 AM
Seems pretty conclusive.
RE: Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium - frmorrison - 01-27-2012 05:51 AM
Avg CL 1270 without 10% AoE
Avg CL 1389 with 10% AoE
9.3% improvement, so that is enough to prove to me that the damage added is simply (normal CL/DF damage)*1.1