Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - Printable Version
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RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - MagicSN - 02-07-2012 07:38 PM
I am currently adding support for the Jedi Knight Tank to my Theorycrafting Tool "Project Shield" (formerly only for Jedi Consular tanks - and sorry, if I use Republic naming, it works for Imperials of course too).
I got a question. What is a realistic uptime for the Defense Buff of the "Blade Barricade" Talent? As it depends on Riposte which only is usable in certain situations this is a bit tricky. But I still would like to include it into the Effective Damage Reduction calculation.
Project Shield will support a Combobox where you can choose (sorry, no completely free entry of a value) an uptime for this talent (0%, 25%, 33%, 50%, 66%, 75% and 100% are currently the options I added). My question is now: What would be a sensible default value? (And I understand this is a tricky question...)
Thanks in advance!
What I currently did not include into the calculation:
- Blade Barrier (and this probably stay like this), as this is a "fixed" amount of absorb and my tool operates on relative amounts (percent of damage taken and such) and so does not fit into the concept
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - Zuvassin - 02-08-2012 03:56 AM
I am going to assume (from watching your vids) that you have macros set up via your mouse or keyboard. Especially with the massive amounts of spam telling you abilities aren't ready yet . What macros are you using, if I may ask?
Vassin - Helm of Graush
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - Coriolis - 02-08-2012 05:15 AM
Yeah I picked up the tanking trinket last night from NM robot. It would really be a much better trinket for an assasin or even PT tank with with their much higher shield chance, but we don't have one in our guild. As for how good it is, I think it is worth using over the matrix cube in combo with an activated +def trinket, but I doubt that it's significantly better. Hopefully they'll put in a trinket more useful to a jugg.
When it comes to stat weighs, this spreadsheet by LagunaD (http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Tanking-stat-spreadsheet-online) does the math about stat weights. Basically what you'll find is that yes, unlike assasins/PTs we should get more def then shield/abs, but the exact ratio varies depending on your stat budget (with the numbers I've played with it seems to be something like 3:0.8:1.2 for def:shield:abs).
Of course being avoidance tanks our hp will jump around more then equivalent PT/assasins, but even in NM the only place where "spike" damage has been an issue for us has been jorg/sorno. And for those guys I'm pretty sure their worst attacks are tech and hence not susceptible to def or abs/shield in any case.
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - Axem - 02-10-2012 02:46 AM
Yes a do use a basic priority rotation to build as much threat as possible.
Watch this 16 man nightmare droid video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEbaF7zCxPU
That's my looping macro every 100ms - I do all my taunts, cooldowns, and special attacks by hand though...
Basically priority is setup in 5 sections prebuff - charge/saber throw - special condition attacks - basic attacks in order of threat gen - rage regen
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - gramz - 02-10-2012 04:28 AM
My only issue with jugg tanking at the moment is our snap aggro. My guilds DPS have gotten so geared that I have to tell them to wait ~5s to give me a little head start or the boss just walks away from me no matter what I do.
Since our gear has ~220 surge on it in full rakata, I'm going to go ahead and start using the crit rating adrenal on the pull and hopefully this will make it atleast bearable so I dont have this issue. Or would you guys recommend a different adrenal? (i'm biochem) Ive tried the power one, it just doesnt do enough imo.
Also.. is it possible to "leapfrog" threat, sort of like what was possible in WoW with mages mirror images? For example I'd have a merc DPS blow all CDs (and his defense CD) and go balls to the wall for ~10s, then I'd taunt, intercede, have him life gripped and him use his aggro drop.
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - Vanifae - 02-10-2012 06:41 AM
(02-10-2012 04:28 AM)gramz Wrote: My only issue with jugg tanking at the moment is our snap aggro. My guilds DPS have gotten so geared that I have to tell them to wait ~5s to give me a little head start or the boss just walks away from me no matter what I do.
This is actually why I stuck with the 14/27 Hybrid build that was posted earlier. I find my threat is much more stable and easier to maintain than with the Immortal 31/10 spec. It may just be me but I find the threat tools much simpler than with the full Immortal build. When I was 31/10 I was constantly losing threat but when I switched I found it very easy to grab and maintain threat over my dps.
Maybe that will change with full blown Operations but right now I am quite pleased with the build.
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - Layotees - 02-11-2012 03:40 AM
I have recently been conducting some tests to debunk a few myths that have been circulating in the Juggernaut community about Sonic Barrier.
In this test, I set out to prove that Sonic Barrier:
Is not based on a percentage of your health.
Does not noticeably scale with gear.
Does not absorb more than 1000 health.
Disclaimer: Some of the decimals in this have been rounded, numbers to the nearest integer, percentages to the nearest tenth.
Timeline of the video is down at the bottom. I do advise you watch the video in an HD format so you can read my health bar. Scrolling Combat Text does not display drops in health from attacks that break Sonic Barrier, however loss of health is clearly visible.
A Carnage Marauder was used for these tests due to their guaranteed critical Force Screams and lack of debuffs put on their opponents. The Sever talent was skipped to keep his Critical Multiplier as low as possible.
Mahlus Scream: 1069 to 1133 + 58.8% = 1698 to 1799
Naked test: 0% mitigation, 1748 median, range 101 1698 to 1799
2826 - 1755 = 1071 health lost = 630 to 731 absorbed
2626 - 1554 = 1072 health lost = 629 to 730 absorbed
2999 - 1928 = 1071 health lost = 630 to 731 absorbed
Average range: 630 to 731
Analysis: Assuming the value of Sonic Barrier is constant and not a range, All three screams hit for about the same amount. This data is not conclusive, additional testing is necessary to get a more exact value for sonic barrier's absorb.
Armor no set bonus test: 21.81% mitigation, 1369 median, range 78 1330 to 1408
15540 - 14931 = 609 health lost = 721 to 799 absorbed
13323 - 12667 = 656 health lost = 674 to 752 absorbed
11236 - 10561 = 675 health lost = 655 to 733 absorbed
Average Absorb Range: 683 to 735
Analysis: Damage taken range is 65, very close to the damage dealable range of 78. If Sonic Barrier is indeed a constant and not a range, it most likely absorbs close to 705 within this scenario. Inconclusive data in the naked test makes it difficult to determine if Sonic Barrier scales with gear, but can conclude that if it does, it scales VERY slowly.
Armor set bonus test: 30.26% mitigation, 1219 median, range 70 1184 to 1254
17501 - 17145 = 356 health lost = 828 to 898 absorbed
15018 - 14681 = 337 health lost = 847 to 917 absorbed
12997 - 12624 = 373 health lost = 811 to 881 absorbed
Average Absorb Range: 828 to 898
Analysis: Damage taken range is 36, half of the damage dealable range, making this less precise than the previous test for finding the value of Sonic Barrier. However, the average is a solid 145 to 163 points higher than the test without the set bonus. 705 x 1.2 = 846 backs up the possibility that Sonic Barrier absorbs somewhere around 705 without the set bonus, and somewhere around 845 with the set bonus (when in most of gear).
Start to 1:00: I display my stats during the naked test and Mahlus' stats for all of the tests.
1:05 to 1:22: Mahlus hits me with a Force Scream with Execute up. This is to show that we were aware that the ability could throw off our numbers,
and that we were accounting for it and having him click it off should it proc in future tests. His buff bar is visible for all of the test screams.
1:23 to 2:05: 3 Force Screams without Sonic Barrier up during the naked test.
2:05 to 2:50: 3 Force Screams with Sonic Barrier up during the naked test. The numbers for these screams are listed above.
2:58 to 3:05: Displaying stats for the gear with no set bonus test.
3:05 to 3:55: 3 Force Screams without Sonic Barrier up during the gear with no set bonus test.
4:00 to 5:05: 3 Force Screams with Sonic Barrier up during the gear with no set bonus test. Numbers above.
5:15 to 5:22: Displaying stats for the gear with set bonus test.
5:23 to 6:00: 3 Force Screams without Sonic Barrier up during the gear with set bonus test.
6:00 to end: 3 Force Screams with Sonic Barrier up during the gear with set bonus test. Numbers above.
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - Fraser - 02-11-2012 05:46 AM
Interesting, that certainly tracks with the data from Torhead and what we know of talented abilities. Somewhat disappointing that it doesn't scale, and somewhat surprising actually, anecdotally Sonic Barrier felt like it absorbed more than that. Further the fact that it doesn't scale on anything other than current level seems shortsighted on Biowares part as health pools and/or enemy damage will outstrip the usefulness of the ability rather quickly..
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - CaseyTheRetard - 02-11-2012 07:10 AM
Does this mean we can finally get the OP updated to say that Sonic Barrier absorbs 10% of StandardHeal (708.5 at level 50) instead of claiming that it aborbs as much as Static Barrier?
RE: Immortal | Defense Compendium | A Tank's Guide To The Galaxy - Layotees - 02-11-2012 07:47 AM
(02-11-2012 05:46 AM)Fraser Wrote: Interesting, that certainly tracks with the data from Torhead and what we know of talented abilities. Somewhat disappointing that it doesn't scale, and somewhat surprising actually, anecdotally Sonic Barrier felt like it absorbed more than that. Further the fact that it doesn't scale on anything other than current level seems shortsighted on Biowares part as health pools and/or enemy damage will outstrip the usefulness of the ability rather quickly..
The reason why Sonic Barrier feels like it absorbs quite a bit is an issue with Scrolling Combat Text. As the damager, when you hit someone hard enough to break a shield, you see an absorbed message and you see the amount of damage you dealt to them pop up. However, as the damagee, you only see one piece of scrolling combat text; the Absorbed message.
You can see this in my video as every single scream that hits me while sonic barrier is up does not display any damage on the scrolling combat text, but my health bar can be seen to show a drop.
Edit: As an aside, I do not think this makes Sonic Barrier a bad talent. An extra 800+ effective emergency health is not to be scoffed at, at least not at the current maximum gear level, given how hard bosses hit with individual strikes.