+- SWTOR Mechanics Forums (http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums)
+-- Forum: Class Discussion (/forum-7.html)
+--- Forum: Bounty Hunter and Trooper (/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium (/thread-446.html)
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - blott - 01-14-2012 06:21 PM
After a while and some help from Asmiroth I got his spreadsheet working, and it is very impressive work I must say!Thank you for taking the time to make this effort to get us some very interesting data.
Sadly I don't think it will help very much until we can fully model many of the skills that are available to each tree. From what I can tell at this point you show our base DPS with skills spent and only having the abilities yet no bonus from any of our skills in that tree. Maybe I am missing something but I couldn't find where you have our skills mapped for increases in damage or anything like that.
I also think procs are very important to our heat levels as with Pyro you will get a -8heat from using railshot on burning things and then if you get a PPA proc its a free RS and a heat dump. This is part of why figuring out a optimal rotation or priority list is very difficult, things like PPA, Superheated Rail, and Burnout are extremely important talents that significantly boost dps not being able to make these part of the equation hurts our theory dps meters a lot.
I am not sure what we can do besides wait for good folks like Asmiroth to continue helping us out big time with the theory.
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - Asmiroth - 01-15-2012 12:20 AM
(01-14-2012 06:21 PM)blott Wrote: Sadly I don't think it will help very much until we can fully model many of the skills that are available to each tree. From what I can tell at this point you show our base DPS with skills spent and only having the abilities yet no bonus from any of our skills in that tree. Maybe I am missing something but I couldn't find where you have our skills mapped for increases in damage or anything like that.
The direct impact to abilities from the skill tree are already mapped in the sheet. If you change your skill selections on the Character Input screen you'll see the damage numbers change drastically.
The DPS portion (Log sheet) assumes the average damage per hit (which includes crit) rather than calculate it per event. Over a 5 minute fight, the variance is minimal. Events are calculated in the background, such as Charged Gauntlets or Particle Accelerator. Heat Venting is in there as well - you can tell when Rail Shot has a negative impact on total Heat. If people are familiar with Macros you can take a look at the actual methods within the sheet.
If you were to select only IM and TD from Pyro and run the DPS again you would see lower numbers - 920 DPS to be exact.
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - blott - 01-15-2012 03:22 PM
AHHhhhh I found all the macro stuff ty. Now I am questioning how PPA is not bugged in game as your models show it procing FAR less then it does in game but oh wells ty for your work its very interesting.
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - Asmiroth - 01-16-2012 12:09 AM
(01-15-2012 03:22 PM)blott Wrote: AHHhhhh I found all the macro stuff ty. Now I am questioning how PPA is not bugged in game as your models show it procing FAR less then it does in game but oh wells ty for your work its very interesting.
You found a bug
Fixed now. The problem with PPA is that Rocket Punch is the 5th best ability and Flame Burst is the 7th, so the odds of actually using them is small at best. I have tested moving RP up to 3rd (under IM and TD) to hunt for a proc but it's a clear dps loss. So for that reason, PPA essentially provides a free railshot and not a quick railshot (as the cooldown is likely never to be reset).
That being said, I`m still trying to see how arm pen works. Maybe that will change things.
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - KayGBee - 01-16-2012 03:21 AM
(01-14-2012 02:36 PM)Asmiroth Wrote: 1) It has a hard cap of 30% from ratings, currently not possible to reach in game. It has diminishing returns too, so the more you stack the worse it gets. Best to balance with Surge.
2) As with 1, if you keep both fairly even then you're pretty well set since they share a very similar curve.
3) Due to skill trees that do not provide a benefit for crits, Power actually has a very high rating and has no diminishing returns. Power is quite good. I would advocate stacking Power and an even amount of Crit/Surge second.
4) Power.
5) For regular enemies, use it right away. For strong enemies, use it when Rail Shot is on cooldown.
6) 100% for regular attacks is needed to get Rapid Shots to hit properly and you're going to be using that skill a LOT. 329 rating is what you need at 50. You seem to be already there.
Asmiroth, thanks for the reply.
The only ability that I can see that benefits from crit is the reduction of the CD on TSO through Automated Defenses.
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - Asmiroth - 01-16-2012 04:32 AM
(01-16-2012 03:21 AM)KayGBee Wrote: Asmiroth, thanks for the reply.
The only ability that I can see that benefits from crit is the reduction of the CD on TSO through Automated Defenses.
Correct. I hadn't modeled that properly but it's there now. At a 30% crit rate, Rapid Shots will proc it nearly every time (5 hits), so you're going to have the buff active almost all the time. It comes out to a ~60DPS buff (6% increase). Still not enough to get Flame Burst but it's enough to get more Rocket Punches and therefore more free Rail Shots.
Power still comes out on top in terms of bonus to overall damage.
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - Klaymen - 01-16-2012 11:46 AM
Hi Asmiroth. Thanks for doing all this work for us troopers/bounty hunters.
I downloaded your spreadsheet and love the work you put into it. I started a spreadsheet for myself but nothing quite as advanced as your one. I've been working out a rotation of sorts for the tactics/AP tree and on your DPS model it seems though there could be alot of room for adjustments to make the perfect priority because it will change all the time. Is there an easy way to adjust the priority and conditions for the DPS model or u have to programme it in?
I've noticed that after an Immolate the model should Rocket punch before retractable blade because its already free and then has another chance of the next one being free.
Also it seems to prioritize Flame thrower ahead of Immolate because it has a better damage/cast time but Immolate has a higher damage/heat so I think u would get more DPS out if u changed the order
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - Asmiroth - 01-16-2012 12:52 PM
(01-16-2012 11:46 AM)Klaymen Wrote: Hi Asmiroth. Thanks for doing all this work for us troopers/bounty hunters.
I downloaded your spreadsheet and love the work you put into it. I started a spreadsheet for myself but nothing quite as advanced as your one. I've been working out a rotation of sorts for the tactics/AP tree and on your DPS model it seems though there could be alot of room for adjustments to make the perfect priority because it will change all the time. Is there an easy way to adjust the priority and conditions for the DPS model or u have to programme it in?
I've noticed that after an Immolate the model should Rocket punch before retractable blade because its already free and then has another chance of the next one being free.
Also it seems to prioritize Flame thrower ahead of Immolate because it has a better damage/cast time but Immolate has a higher damage/heat so I think u would get more DPS out if u changed the order
The priority has to be programmed in the macros section. Search for Prototype31 if you want.
If you have Immolate, Rocket Punch cannot be free. It can be a guaranteed crit though and that's just under Flame Thrower in terms of priority. I too thought that Damage Per Heat would be a concern but what actually matters is damage per heat reduction ability - in this case, Rapid Shot. It then becomes a pure damage:damage comparison and anything with a higher damage per cast time comes out on top when it comes to pure DPS output.
I've tested Immolate at the top of the list and it's a DPS loss - about 6%.
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - Oyxl - 01-16-2012 05:43 PM
Sadly , I seem to be unable to properly open the sheet. I first asks me for a repair and after that it doesn't really seem to function at all. I'll try again when I can give it more attention.
RE: Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium - Klaymen - 01-16-2012 06:30 PM
(01-16-2012 12:52 PM)Asmiroth Wrote:(01-16-2012 11:46 AM)Klaymen Wrote: Hi Asmiroth. Thanks for doing all this work for us troopers/bounty hunters.
I downloaded your spreadsheet and love the work you put into it. I started a spreadsheet for myself but nothing quite as advanced as your one. I've been working out a rotation of sorts for the tactics/AP tree and on your DPS model it seems though there could be alot of room for adjustments to make the perfect priority because it will change all the time. Is there an easy way to adjust the priority and conditions for the DPS model or u have to programme it in?
I've noticed that after an Immolate the model should Rocket punch before retractable blade because its already free and then has another chance of the next one being free.
Also it seems to prioritize Flame thrower ahead of Immolate because it has a better damage/cast time but Immolate has a higher damage/heat so I think u would get more DPS out if u changed the order
The priority has to be programmed in the macros section. Search for Prototype31 if you want.
If you have Immolate, Rocket Punch cannot be free. It can be a guaranteed crit though and that's just under Flame Thrower in terms of priority. I too thought that Damage Per Heat would be a concern but what actually matters is damage per heat reduction ability - in this case, Rapid Shot. It then becomes a pure damage:damage comparison and anything with a higher damage per cast time comes out on top when it comes to pure DPS output.
I've tested Immolate at the top of the list and it's a DPS loss - about 6%.
It should be free with the flame barrage talent but its flame burst that also gives it a chance which is where I went wrong.
I think there is room for improvement on the dps rotation. Ill post what details I have when I get it sorted and u can let me know if I'm way off base or not