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+--- Thread: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium (/thread-419.html)
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - capnaverage - 01-26-2012 06:11 AM
(01-26-2012 05:04 AM)Hezekiah Wrote: i have a question regarding secondary stat weights. i am mostly a scrapper dps. is the cap on accuracy that you refer to 100% or 110%? also up to this point after cunning and accuracy i've been stacking power including a relic with a use function of power. my current critical strike chance with all abilities is 31% (with smuggler buff) and the crit modifier being about 66%. would it be better to switch out power to either crit or surge?[
My question piggybacks off of Hezekiah's question: Is it known if there is a crit soft-cap? At what point does crit become redundant in place of surge > power?
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - Anonymousy - 01-26-2012 07:46 PM
the power/crit/surge ratio depends on your spec and rotation (extra surge and/or crit chance for some abilities).
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - Halfkarma - 01-27-2012 12:07 AM
Hello,
I have been playing an op concealment build in endgame now for about a month and i am switching over to lethality. I have tried multiple builds using concealment and I end up having trouble towards the end of rotations doing dmg. I watch my dmg and i see it slowly head down once i have blown my major dmg skills. I then have to wait for cloaking screen to come back to start a new rotation. I ended up just not using debilitate at all during boss fights because it is a waste of time and a waste of energy. So you can drop your cloaking screen down to i believe a minute and a half and during that time if you are doing things right you are rotating around smaller skills since Hidden strike requires you to be cloaked. You can keep dots on them and keep switching between shiv, laceration, backstab, rifle shot. I am always keeping acid blade on but it just doesnt do enough to keep up with marauder or assassins. I was great against adds because I could take them out in two to three hits most of the time. With shield probe i could usually tank most of the bigger adds also bc i have 18k life. I was criting for 7-8k when i used my relic but only 5-6k without it on hidden strike. Lacerate and shiv ranged around the 2k mark but when you are trying to get a boss down before he get enraged it gets annoying having to wait the full minute and half.
I am hoping to switch to the builds you recommended on lethality but has anyone used them yet for endgame? I am excited to not have to always be behind the boss to do most of my dmg.
If there is any flaw in my system please let me know. I am somewhat new to mmos and still learning a lot of the lingo but been doing a ton of research to try to understands mmos while understanding this character to the fullest. Thanks
edit:
Rotation for concealment:
Stealth
Relic
Acid Blade
Hidden Strike
Stim Boost
Shiv
Lacerate
Back Stab
Corrosive Dart
Cloaking screen
Acid Blade
Hidden Strike
Lacerate
Shiv
Stim Boost
Backstab
Flash Powder(only in rotation really for bosses)
rinse and repeat
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - Hezekiah - 01-27-2012 01:58 AM
I've tried both dps specs as a smuggler. As far as from an operations stand point both specs seem to do about the same dmg in most fights. The main reason i ended up sticking with scrapper (concealment) is mostly due to when you switch to adds you can kill em much quicker making certain boss fights go much smoother such as a tank or healer getting trapped in a prison. Also on the last boss of the vault during the last phase there is only a small window when he is not immune being able to dps meaning that dots are normally meant to stay up to tick the entire fight but when there are small windows like that it would seem a non dot spec would do better, but still go with the spec you find more fun both should do well.
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - Batcheck - 01-27-2012 02:42 AM
(01-26-2012 06:11 AM)capnaverage Wrote:(01-26-2012 05:04 AM)Hezekiah Wrote: i have a question regarding secondary stat weights. i am mostly a scrapper dps. is the cap on accuracy that you refer to 100% or 110%? also up to this point after cunning and accuracy i've been stacking power including a relic with a use function of power. my current critical strike chance with all abilities is 31% (with smuggler buff) and the crit modifier being about 66%. would it be better to switch out power to either crit or surge?[
My question piggybacks off of Hezekiah's question: Is it known if there is a crit soft-cap? At what point does crit become redundant in place of surge > power?
I think the consensus is going to be that we won't have any real stat weights until we get some combat logs and can do some parsing to make sure all formulas add up to what the game is reporting. Plus my gut feeling is that our stat weights will be dynamic, or constantly changing based on spec and how much you have of other stats.
I don't have any clue how much accuracy is good for endgame. For a crit softcap though, I'll go with experience gained in other MMOs. Keep in mind though that they are swagged numbers at this point. For Scrapper the softcap would be 84%, since that is where Element of Surprise makes Backblast and First Shot 100% Crit. For Dirty Fighting depending on how you spec, it'll be 84% or 88% whether you take Element of Surprise or only take Black Market Equipment.
The balance between Surge and Power is going to be tricky. I'd rather not comment there until we can get a lot of simulations to see if there is any clear winner.
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - Hezekiah - 01-27-2012 08:28 AM
one thing to take into consideration the 2 piece bonus form the operation gear increases chance to crit by an additional 15% so theoretically if you have that i guess the cap would be about 69%. and thought it is hard to know without logs of course i'm testing out how removing accuracy affects scrapper dps. since if you look at the tech accuracy level it is by default 100% and any accuracy is just bonus. though the accuracy does affect your ranged abilities.
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - Sol - 01-27-2012 09:04 AM
(01-27-2012 02:42 AM)Batcheck Wrote: I think the consensus is going to be that we won't have any real stat weights until we get some combat logs and can do some parsing to make sure all formulas add up to what the game is reporting. Plus my gut feeling is that our stat weights will be dynamic, or constantly changing based on spec and how much you have of other stats.
I don't have any clue how much accuracy is good for endgame. For a crit softcap though, I'll go with experience gained in other MMOs. Keep in mind though that they are swagged numbers at this point. For Scrapper the softcap would be 84%, since that is where Element of Surprise makes Backblast and First Shot 100% Crit. For Dirty Fighting depending on how you spec, it'll be 84% or 88% whether you take Element of Surprise or only take Black Market Equipment.
The balance between Surge and Power is going to be tricky. I'd rather not comment there until we can get a lot of simulations to see if there is any clear winner.
There is no better answer than this. After some very vague testing with Ez and Hugs, we came to the (very general!) conclusion that for most classes power over takes crit/surge after you've attained approximately 200 crit and 100 surge rating. Now this is EXTREMELY GENERALISED AND IN NO WAY 100%. The weights are completely fluid and will change in order of importance several times, depending on your current gear. This is the reason I went for a general rule of thumb to go by.
Talents suggest that while crit isn't as valued as power (+16% crit to BS/HS), it helps meticulousliy kept blades out a lot (+30% crit dmg to HS/BS/AB). But if you're stacking surge anyway for MTB, you are going to want crit up there as well for laceration/shiv and even vital shot. I still believe though that you can obtain sufficient crit through gear and that power relics are going to be more beneficial, as it doesn't scale with dimished returns like crit/surge.
This is only my opinion though and in no way mathematically proven. I'm just using a common sense approach a this point in time, with all of my characters. Until such time that we have a decent combat log and a spread sheet (Ez is currently working on it) there really is no 100% method for determining stat weights currently.
As far as accuracy goes, the common concensus is that bosses have somewhere between 8-9% defence. Therefore with talents and gear you are going to want to cap accuracy for your special attacks to 108/9%.
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - Puli - 01-27-2012 02:12 PM
(01-27-2012 12:07 AM)Halfkarma Wrote: *snip*
If there is any flaw in my system please let me know. I am somewhat new to mmos and still learning a lot of the lingo but been doing a ton of research to try to understands mmos while understanding this character to the fullest. Thanks
edit:
Rotation for concealment:
Stealth
Relic
Acid Blade
Hidden Strike
Stim Boost
Shiv
Lacerate
Back Stab
Corrosive Dart
Cloaking screen
Acid Blade
Hidden Strike
Lacerate
Shiv
Stim Boost
Backstab
Flash Powder(only in rotation really for bosses)
rinse and repeat
You should be using Acid Blade before your Backstabs, and doing that basically on cooldown. And for bosses, you should do Corrosive dart earlier, though I doubt that is hurting your dps too much as long as you are reapplying it when it falls off.. I usually do mine right after Hidden Strike (while also popping Stim Boost).
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - LagunaD - 01-27-2012 04:10 PM
(01-27-2012 09:04 AM)Sol Wrote: As far as accuracy goes, the common concensus is that bosses have somewhere between 8-9% defence. Therefore with talents and gear you are going to want to cap accuracy for your special attacks to 108/9%.
The 8-9% estimate is for ranged attacks, though, which do not figure prominently in this spec's ability selection. The vast majority of this spec's damage comes from tech attacks, for which there is no evidence for any boss defense (same with force attacks, which is why Sorcs/Sages don't want Accuracy either).
Accuracy Rating will reduce the chance of ranged attacks - including the basic attack - being avoided, but since such a small fraction of our damage comes from ranged attacks, I think it is unlikely Accuracy Rating will ever be on par with other stats (Power, Surge, Crit) that buff our heavy hitters.
RE: Scoundrel/Operative DPS Compendium - Batcheck - 01-28-2012 03:02 AM
(01-27-2012 04:10 PM)LagunaD Wrote: The 8-9% estimate is for ranged attacks, though, which do not figure prominently in this spec's ability selection. The vast majority of this spec's damage comes from tech attacks, for which there is no evidence for any boss defense (same with force attacks, which is why Sorcs/Sages don't want Accuracy either).
Accuracy Rating will reduce the chance of ranged attacks - including the basic attack - being avoided, but since such a small fraction of our damage comes from ranged attacks, I think it is unlikely Accuracy Rating will ever be on par with other stats (Power, Surge, Crit) that buff our heavy hitters.
If you are thinking in terms of Scrapper/Concealment that argument has some validity, but Dirty Fighting/Lethality tree is another story. I might be very wrong, but I believe all the DoTs are ranged attacks. Missing and having to spend another GCD to reply a DoT is a pretty big loss in damage.
Even for Scrapper, Vital Shot isn't a huge portion of damage, but it's a safe way to make sure you're Round Two procs are maximized throughout the fight. Missing a Vital Shot in that spec can have some pretty bad consequences down the line and that's without knowing fully how big an affect accuracy has on tech resistance over 100% accuracy.
Now there is likely a point were Crit/Power/Surge outweigh accuracy to cap, but once again, without clear simulations and parses, it's just safer to go with the Accuracy to cap first as a rule.