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RE: Damage and Healing formula - Beliel - 09-28-2011 02:43 PM
Freehugs Wrote:Can we be sure that the player isn't being influenced by buffs or debuffs, or changing gear between the ability screenshots?
Been in classes, so just now seeing this. Hopefully this will save you the pain of going through it as meticulously as I did.
All buffs at the time of the screen capture are also present in the screen capture. I also checked them against several other screen captures of the same ability at different points to make sure any proc buffs did not change them. They were all consistent. Talents were unchanged throughout the entire video and at one point (about mid way through the video) he added a new belt. All the tooltips linked above were taken after that point.
RE: Damage and Healing formula - Freehugs - 09-28-2011 06:35 PM
Thanks Beliel, I found the bit with the new belt and had a look at some of the abilities that show up after that. Here's an interesting tidbit:
At one point he mouses over Maul very briefly (you have to go frame by frame to spot it) and the damage is 685 to 726. However if you look at Mauls stats in the XML data:
amountmodifierpercent 0.579999983
standardhealthpercentmin 0.236000001
standardhealthpercentmax 0.236000001
coefficient 2.36999989
...you'll notice that the min and max are the same. The damage range likely comes from the fact that it's a weapon based attack.
You'll also notice that the amountmodifierpercent is much much higher than on all the other attacks we've been looking at. I don't think this modifies the standard damage or the coefficient damage, I think it modifies the weapon damage and that's why it's set to less than 1% on all those Force based attacks. So to test this theory I had a look at some more weapon based attacks of the Assassins:
Thrash (free attack): amountmodifierpercent -0.504999995
Lacerate (AoE): amountmodifierpercent -0.519999981
Low slash (stun): amountmodifierpercent -0.119999997
Sadly there's not a lot of them, but if you rummage through the other classes you'll see that the non-weapon attacks all use 0.00999999978 where the weapon attacks all have different values. Given that some values are negative, particularly on attacks that do more than just single target damage (aoe's, stuns, free attacks like with the Assassin) the formula is probably something like:
Damage = (standardhealthpercentmin or max) x standarddamageforcurrentlevel + damagepowercoefficient x damagebonus + (weapon damage) x (1 + amountmodifierpercent)
(would only work for weapon attacks)
RE: Damage and Healing formula - yoritomo - 09-29-2011 05:36 PM
Does this mean that as we get better weapons our force powers will be less useful? If so, it seems like marauders will outscale juggernauts pretty handily.
RE: Damage and Healing formula - Ezmode - 09-29-2011 06:35 PM
Upgrading a weapons ilvl will increase the amount of force power granted by the weapon in addition to the melee damage upgrade. At least that's what I remember it doing.
RE: Damage and Healing formula - Alratan - 09-29-2011 10:39 PM
roofie is correct. All weapons grant appropriate ranged-attack-type damage relative to their level and quality. For instance, Lightsabers give Force Power and Blasters give Ranged/Tech ability damage bonus. I can't remember what table this is in and am not at my normal computer at present, but it it's either in standarddamageperleveltable or some other obvious table.
RE: Damage and Healing formula - Anubis Black - 09-30-2011 12:47 AM
Adding mods to weapons (i.e. upgrading them) insreases their ilvl and higher ilvl weapons provide higher damage. The table Alratan is thinking of is tbl / cbtweaponperleveltable. An interesting thing about that table (a bit off- topic) is that there is damage listed for "unarmed". However, upon unequipping your weapon, Accuracy disappears. So unless there have been major changes, you cannot attack without a weapon (i.e. unarmed).
To get back on track with the weapon based attacks damage formula, consider the following screenshots provided by roofie:
Paperdoll
Spec
Buffs
Main Hand
Off Hand
Ravage
Retaliation
Vicious Slash
From what I gather, Beliel and roofie tried out different versions of the formula, but the data didn't seem to fit. I doubt anyone has tried Freehugs' suggestion, so maybe try that. It is an interesting idea, but we have already determined that weapon based attacks use the values from tbl / cbtweaponperleveltable for bonus to low/high damage range, instead of standardhealthpercentmin/max. The latter is 0 for almost all weapon based attacks. But it doesn't hurt to try, even though not very likely.
Also, all data is appreciated. So for people interested in finding out the relationship, the best way to help out is to supply us with data.
RE: Damage and Healing formula - Kaedis - 09-30-2011 04:41 AM
Not sure we're ready to tackle dual-wield tooltips until we have a solid formula for single-weapon.
RE: Damage and Healing formula - Masterkiller - 09-30-2011 04:53 AM
Well I have been working night and day working on the melee formula. I even taped some printed out spreadsheets to the wall while I did dishes last night. I've made some progress.
This isn't the correct formula, but it is what I am currently working with, it only works for Force Charge.
(StandardDamagePerLevel * Standarhealthpercent)+(PrimaryDamage*(Rank* -amountmodifierpercent))
if you aren't a fan of the rank you can take it out:
(StandardDamagePerLevel * Standarhealthpercent)+(PrimaryDamage*(-amountmodifierpercent))
For the people I'm in chat with here is a screenshot. I'll explain the rest in another post, but I'm about to head out. With that formula, Force Charge works out. I'm magically changing the amount modifier from a negative to a positive, so that end piece still needs work or could be completely wrong.
Edit; Merged the following posts between myself and Roofie to keep the thread clean and concise.
Quote:
I think you meant to put 51.41 + 25.15 = instead of 58.70 + 25.15 =. It confused the hell out of me when it wasn't adding up in my head. Just to make sure, you did account for Ravage's 3 blows and 2 separate values, correct?
Also, I might be completely wrong here, but:
(32+47)/2 = 39.5 + 26.5 = 66, not 64.5, which would then change some of the numbers down the line too, possibly throwing off your calculations.
Yes, thanks. I grabbed the wrong cell for the 51.41 DOH. And yes, I assumed the 411-440 on the Ravage tooltip was the combined 3 blows. It's multipliers look much like Force Charge's, so each blow should come out just above Force Charge.
I averaged the Primary tooltip range which I assume is ((32+26.5) + (47+26.5))/2 but as you point out, is not. So the Primary tooltip must be calculating it in another fashion. Something else to consider. This throws the Force Charge damage off, but still creates the proper range of damage. All of the other formulas seem to put the minimum damage to low and the max damage to high.
Actually, I believe that the first two blows would be as you said, just above Force Charge, and the final one much higher. There are two sets of multipliers. If you did all that then I apologize, I must be misunderstanding.
I haven't gotten that far yet, I'm trying to get Force Charge and Viscious Strike to work first, as they are quite contrasting in damage and multipliers.
Fair enough. Ravage is a bitch to deal with anyhow.
RE: Damage and Healing formula - Freehugs - 09-30-2011 11:24 AM
I have some questions on your spreadsheet MasterKiller.
Assuming PrimaryMin and PrimaryMax is the weapon damage, where do the WeaponMin and WeaponMax numbers come from?
Where did you get the standardhealthpercent and coefficient numbers from for Assault? I can only find Battering Assault and Sundering Assault.
I think there's some problems with you data, the main one being that the Bonus Damage probably includes the Force Bonus damage when weapon attacks don't use that. Also, Ravage seems to have different stats for the 3rd tick.
RE: Damage and Healing formula - Masterkiller - 09-30-2011 12:18 PM
Assault is under Flurry in the abl table. It has a Coef of 1, but healthpercent and amountmodifier are listed as 0. So it's interesting that coef of 1 and the other two as 0, provides you with about 45% primary damage...
PrimaryMin and PrimaryMax is the paperdoll tooltip for weapon damn + bonus damage. The bonus damage is the number I was provided from a lvl 8 tester (who gave me the stats for the abilities as well), all given at the same time.
Also as Roofie pointed out, the PrimaryAvg is off by a couple, depending on when you add the bonus damage (before or after adding and dividing by 2).