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+--- Thread: Sith Assassin PvP (/thread-222.html)
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Risky - 03-03-2012 01:44 AM
(03-02-2012 11:04 PM)Arivory Wrote: 1) i was always specced 31/0/10 but im wondering whether 31/2/8 with 2 points in "Duplicity" (maul proc, lowered cost + armor pen) might increase dps more than 2 points in "Torment" (decreased thrash/shock cost). Any thoughts?
2) I always thought survivor set would outdo stalkers, since the 4pc bonus of survivor (5% damage increase) sounds pretty awesome. I wonder how good the 4pc stalker bonus is and whether the overall higher dps-relevant stats weigh more than the 5% bonus on survivors 4pc?
1) I wouldn't do it because I don't think Maul's burst against someone with good gear is enough to solve that problem. Also because I really like Torment. I guess I'm in the minority in that.
2) The difference between 1 extra charge of Recklessness vs +5% damage, even within the 20~ second window of Reck, is pretty close (the former is a bit better). So 4p Survivor is better in the long run if you put the Stalker mods in the Survivor armor imo.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Weeblie - 03-07-2012 11:48 PM
(02-26-2012 09:35 AM)Condescend Wrote:(02-24-2012 12:17 AM)Neokarasu Wrote:(02-23-2012 10:29 AM)ryphez Wrote: Is it better for PVP Darkness to get the Stalker gear or the tanky gear?
I like using full Stalker. Whether or not it's "better" depends on your playstyle.
Survivor gear will give you more survivability at the cost of damage. The main argument against it is that the mitigation it gives only apply to a small portion of incoming damage so the main source of survivability is mostly from the Endurance. With Dark Charge and Dark Ward, you'll have the same Armor and almost the same Shield chance as full Survivor. The main things you'll be missing are Endurance, Defense, and Absorb. Defense and Shield (and subsequently Absorb) only works against Ranged/Melee attacks (i.e. white hits) so that depends on the guys you're fighting.
That said, Survivor gear will increase survivability regardless. So it comes down to playstyle. I prefer Stalker gear (+Shield) for more burst damage. Survivability can be iffy but with the right CD usage, it's fine (and I always run with a Sorc anyway).
I think I am going to have to agree here. Up until 1-2 weeks ago I was using full Champion Survivor gear in PvP. I did no damage and I didn't really find the damage mitigation was all that great compared to others who were as geared as me. I also have a full Champion Survivor set that I thought I would try on. I have noticed a massive jump in output damage and yet I would say my ability to stay alive is just as great. The use of all the Tank CD's are great. Yes I have about 3k less hp, but I believe the damage output makes up for that. As you said I am full DPS gear except for my Shield. I came here looking for someone else's opinion to this because I have a few Battlemaster tokens (almost rank 64 and have got 5) and I'd rather not waste them on the Survivor gear if the Stalker is going to be better. I noticed you said it depends on playstyle, but I personally think Stalker is better overall whether you are DPS or Tank spec for PvP.
Anyone else tried this and have an opinion?
Survivor set bonuses are to my experience a lot stronger than the Stalker ones. I'm currently using a full set of BM survival gear with grade 24 power mods (to increase base damage) and surge/crit enhancements (to boost PA and FP + HS). The decrease in survivability is in my opinion quite insignificant compared to the increase in damage output (except for when you are the ball carrier).
My philosophy is that the more damage you do, the faster the enemy will die, and hence the less damage you'll take overall.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - TehScat - 03-14-2012 12:31 AM
Can any of the calc experts give us some general numbers on power v crit v surge for assassin pvp? Considering the focus would be on shock and assassinate damage, would be nice to be able to model around maximum damage for those abilities. I tried briefly using the data in the DPS primer thread, but the coefficient descriptions are less than ideal and I don't know exactly which figures they are referring to, and how to obtain them.
The thread offers derivatives on power, crit, surge AND willpower. If someone can fill in the equation (or at least just the static coefficients) for assassinate and/or shock, we could access an exact "each point of x will increase burst damage by y" that would be very useful when deciding between the high willpower v high stat mods/pieces.
If nothing else, can we get an example of how to use the formula in the primer, and I'll then be able to make my own spreadsheet in 10 minutes.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Risky - 03-14-2012 09:07 AM
(03-14-2012 12:31 AM)TehScat Wrote: If someone can fill in the equation (or at least just the static coefficients) for assassinate and/or shock
Assassin damage equations: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Sith-Assassin-Deception-analysis?pid=6843#pid6843
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Condescend - 03-27-2012 07:08 PM
(03-14-2012 12:31 AM)TehScat Wrote: Can any of the calc experts give us some general numbers on power v crit v surge for assassin pvp? Considering the focus would be on shock and assassinate damage, would be nice to be able to model around maximum damage for those abilities. I tried briefly using the data in the DPS primer thread, but the coefficient descriptions are less than ideal and I don't know exactly which figures they are referring to, and how to obtain them.
The thread offers derivatives on power, crit, surge AND willpower. If someone can fill in the equation (or at least just the static coefficients) for assassinate and/or shock, we could access an exact "each point of x will increase burst damage by y" that would be very useful when deciding between the high willpower v high stat mods/pieces.
If nothing else, can we get an example of how to use the formula in the primer, and I'll then be able to make my own spreadsheet in 10 minutes.
The way I have been gearing my Assassin is trying to get as close to the Accuracy cap and the soft cap for Surge as I can. I do not bother about Crit because I am currently playing in Tank spec with DPS gear so my Shock has the ability to be 100% crit. So stacking crit would be pointless when Energize procs. Power is the next most important stat I believe. I have got upwards of 2.7k Shock crits on full Battlemaster geared players. I may be wrong but this is the way I have been modding my gear and seems to be working rather well so far.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Phake - 03-28-2012 11:05 AM
OK, I originally started leveling as deception, then i switched to a darkness hybrid to level and do flash points. I got a lot of medals in the War-zones but any open world PVP i got destroyed. I never really did any damage also. I am now Valor Rank 50 and have been PVPing as Deception. Is Deception the best single target DPS for an assassin for PVP or is madness worth trying? Since the changes getting 10 medals doesn't interest me as much but hitting people extremely hard and winning one on one fights does.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - rsmakk - 04-03-2012 07:46 AM
Question - for Madness, I am struggling a bit with the balance between taking some DPS skills and some survivability skills.
Specifically - I understand for PvE the ideal spec doesn't include Chain Shock or UK, and 3 points into Duplicity. But for PvP, I find myself often using Shock (so I think I need to keep Chain Shock and UK), and not often finding myself in position to Maul (so I wonder if perhaps only 1 point into Duplicity?).
But as I trade off skills, not sure if they should go into Induction, Sith Defiance, or Corrupted Flesh.
Also, what PvP set do you folks recommend for Madness? Stalker or Force Master?
Thanks Much
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - frmorrison - 04-03-2012 08:09 AM
You can right that in PvP, you want Chain Shock.
Corrupted Flesh is better than Sith Defiance for PvP. Induction for Deception builds, you are referring to Madness.
Stalker is generally better than Force Master due to the set bonuses and Enhancements. While you don't need much Accuracy (you can put in a different enhancement), you certainly don't want any Alacrity found all over Force Master.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - rsmakk - 04-03-2012 09:25 AM
Apologies - I meant Insulation, not Induction
So Chain Shock is in.. is UK still in also?
Lastly, regarding Stalker vs Force Master - I've heard some folks prefer the 2 piece bonus on FM because of the heal off of Crushing Darkness over the 4 piece Stalker buff on Recklessness.. so I was wondering what folks thought about that (again, for Madness)
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Tekas - 04-05-2012 07:08 AM
(04-03-2012 07:46 AM)rsmakk Wrote: Question - for Madness, I am struggling a bit with the balance between taking some DPS skills and some survivability skills.You really should never be using Shock, in any Madness build. For Madness, Shock is one of the most force inefficient attacks we have, even with Chain Shock. You're better off using Thrash twice, which does comparable or better damage coupled with Thrashing Blades and Claws of Decay (especially considering Exploitive Strikes should be up almost 100% of the time) and is likely to proc Exploit Weakness, Raze, or both. Two Thrashes are also much more force efficient (despite requiring 7 more force). It's really only useful when kiting melee classes, and even then it's worth is questionable.
Specifically - I understand for PvE the ideal spec doesn't include Chain Shock or UK, and 3 points into Duplicity. But for PvP, I find myself often using Shock (so I think I need to keep Chain Shock and UK), and not often finding myself in position to Maul (so I wonder if perhaps only 1 point into Duplicity?).
But as I trade off skills, not sure if they should go into Induction, Sith Defiance, or Corrupted Flesh.
Also, what PvP set do you folks recommend for Madness? Stalker or Force Master?
Thanks Much
Personally, I don't think Insulation is worth taking, especially in PvP where that additional armor is relatively useless. Sith Defiance should always be taken, it applies to damage of every type. 2% isn't much, but it's better than nothing (plus, you have to spend those two points and there isn't anything else that's really worth taking.). Personally, I think the real choice is between Corrupted Flesh and Haunted Dreams.
Right now, I have 2 points in Corrupted Flesh and 1 point in Haunted Dreams. I'm considering putting the second point in Haunted Dreams over Corrupted Flesh since periodic damage is fairly uncommon, especially in PvE (this may be worth taking into consideration if you do both, like me). It might also be worth taking 1 point from Sith Defiance so you can have 2 points in both Haunted Dreams and Corrupted Flesh, but I think Corrupted Flesh is too situational. However, that trade-off is largely a question of personal flavor.
As for gearing, I'd actually go with the 4-piece Stalker PvE set with BM PvP pieces for everything else. The +15% crit. chance on Thrash is a mega-boost considering we should be spamming Thrash when we aren't DoT'ing, Mauling, or using Death Field - it makes Thrash that much better than Shock. This may or may not remain the case with 1.2, however.