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+--- Thread: Sith Assassin PvP (/thread-222.html)
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - guardian17 - 09-05-2011 09:11 AM
Here is another variation of the build. This build is probably stronger for group play, opponents stunned take 9% more damage is very powerful when 2 or 3 people are focus firing. If it turns out stealth detection is really good at preventing openers and 2% defense makes a solid difference in combat then the stealth detection build may be better.
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=0023030201220100000000223020111122301300001000000000000000000
Here is a madness focused assassin pvp build. Lightning charge is likely to be the main charge here.
http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/assassin/?p=2230200000000000000010000000000000000000023032101220130122321
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=0023032101220130122321223020000000000000001000000000000000000
Compare this to the darkness/madness hybrid in the post above, which spec do you think will be more effective in pvp?
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Sol - 09-06-2011 10:30 AM
(09-06-2011 09:22 AM)guardian17 Wrote: Here is a madness focused assassin pvp build. Lightning charge is likely to be the main charge here.
http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/assassin/?p=2230200000000000000010000000000000000000023032101220130122321
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/shadow/?p=0023032101220130122321223020000000000000001000000000000000000
Compare this to the darkness/madness hybrid in the post above, which spec do you think will be more effective in pvp?
My concern about the darkness build is that while it definitely looks to have awesome utility, how much burst does it bring to the table and how effective will it be in any situaion that isn't 1 v 1? It really reminds me of blood DK style of play.
My concern about the madness build is that it focuses very heavily into ranged abilities, which isn't the melee/ranged type of combat I'm after either. Why not just play a sorc then imo.
After looking into the decepion tree, it has very little in the way of PvP talents in any tier. Of course there are a couple but none of them compare to darkness/madness builds imo.
I'll most likely try a madness build pretty much identical to yours first as I like to get in and go for the kills, rather than play the support style that I see darkness being extremely good at. I would really like to see some more utility talents build into the deception tree though because as it stands, I can't see it coming close to a SW at this point in time.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - guardian17 - 09-06-2011 10:46 AM
Excellent points you bring up. The darkness build looks to be especially good at 1on1, but here is the catch: you can use taunt and guard in pvp so I think it will also be good in group pvp as a pvp tank. The darkness build also looks to have quite good dps, not as good as the 31 madness build, but quite good since it is spec quite deep into madness itself.
The 31 madness build seems far better than any other dps pvp build for the assassin. Decent self healing from your 3 dots (lightning discharge, crushing darkness, creeping terror), and it's primarily based on getting procs from using melee abilities like thrash and lacerate. Deception looks downright awful for pvp outside of its tier 1 abilities and tier 3 darkswell.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Sol - 09-06-2011 11:03 AM
(09-06-2011 10:46 AM)guardian17 Wrote: Excellent points you bring up. The darkness build looks to be especially good at 1on1, but here is the catch: you can use taunt and guard in pvp so I think it will also be good in group pvp as a pvp tank.
The 31 madness build seems far better than any other dps pvp build for the assassin. Decent self healing from your 3 dots (lightning discharge, crushing darkness, creeping terror), and it's primarily based on getting procs from using melee abilities like thrash and lacerate. Deception looks downright awful for pvp outside of its tier 1 abilities and tier 3 darkswell.
Yeah I definitely wasn't saying Darkness was bad at group scenarios, it will be extremely hard to kill and as you say with taunt and guard they will be invaluable. For me though, I really like to get in there are get kills, which is why I choose dps style pvp builds as opposed to support. Both require equal amounts of skill, it just comes down to my own personal preference. I was having a tinker around the cals and was wondering what you think of this:
http://war-tools.com/t73007.html?b=9u1323202011k3233302102021d22c0
It is a force lightning build that has very little mobility, due to the fact that force lightning reduces movement speed by 50%. I didn't take any of the dots for I wanted this build to be in and out and when pressured or kited can reliably apply burst through Wrath & Chain Shoke + Energize. I know it doesn't offer hard hits for one specific ability, but with no CD on Force lightning I think you can still be really effective. I effectively want to open with Maul from stealth for increased damage, Thrash, Maul (if possible), Trash again for the decreased shock whilst still in melee range. Now lets say its a SW, then I can overload, FL for snare and try for a second instant proc @ 20% increased damage and then unload with shock (also hoping for a second one). Warrior charges in I can thrash twice again for shock, WW, break it for stun and maul, force slow and sprint, FL & shock while kiting... rinse & repeat. I think this will really provide some good in and out style of play that will confuse those that want to get in your face and stay there, but then realise you're STILL doing significant damage at any distance. It is a bit RNG reliant, however if the stars align I really do see some people scratching their head wondering wtf went wrong as they run back from the GY.
/edit: Also forget discharge in there too and new talents as I accidentally specced into Fanatasism.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - guardian17 - 09-06-2011 11:50 AM
Ill be honest, I really don't like the build you just posted. It tries to do too many things at once, and isn't good at any of them. Not to mention you went deep into madness and skipped death field, which is a must have talent for madness. The general idea behind your build may be sound, but its hard to be both a caster (heavy force lightning use) and melee at the same time.
Here is an improved version of your build. The general idea behind your build remains.
http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/assassin/?p=2030200000000000000012230220110000000000323300011222100000000
Indeed this build looks quite strong, although it may still be trying to do too many things at once (force lightning caster and melee).
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Sol - 09-06-2011 05:22 PM
(09-06-2011 11:50 AM)guardian17 Wrote: Ill be honest, I really don't like the build you just posted. It tries to do too many things at once, and isn't good at any of them. Not to mention you went deep into madness and skipped death field, which is a must have talent for madness. The general idea behind your build may be sound, but its hard to be both a caster (heavy force lightning use) and melee at the same time.
Here is an improved version of your build. The general idea behind your build remains.
http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/assassin/?p=2030200000000000000012230220110000000000323300011222100000000
Indeed this build looks quite strong, although it may still be trying to do too many things at once (force lightning caster and melee).
Indeed I'm trying to do a few things at once, that is the entire purpose of this build is to always be doing damage no matter where I am.
I ended up liking this spec a lot more due to the utility of the darkness tree.
http://war-tools.com/t73007.html?b=920332c11l122s233300112221d22000
It has greater mobility, reduced defensive CD's for survivability and the synergy between thrash, shock and the related damage increasing talents is much better than speccing into blackout and energize in the deception tree.
I also don't think it's hard to be a caster/melee at the same time. I can FL while people attempt to close hopefully proccing talents for burst/increased melee damage and when they get into melee range I thrash/maul, which increase my ranged talents...this is perfect synergy to me. Run or stay close I can hurt you.
Start to hurt me up close and I can overload/electrocute/whirlwind/force slow/force speed (which breaks incapacitating effects every 15 secs)... That is one massive list of control abilities all on CD's under a minute. AND I still have Force Shroud & Deflection to call upon, both under 2 mins CD as well.
This build will definitely require finesse to pull off and for those that can't, they will get smashed most likely. Me, all I see is synergy upon synergy...
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Piree - 09-06-2011 06:15 PM
(09-06-2011 05:22 PM)Sol Wrote:(09-06-2011 11:50 AM)guardian17 Wrote: Ill be honest, I really don't like the build you just posted. It tries to do too many things at once, and isn't good at any of them. Not to mention you went deep into madness and skipped death field, which is a must have talent for madness. The general idea behind your build may be sound, but its hard to be both a caster (heavy force lightning use) and melee at the same time.
Here is an improved version of your build. The general idea behind your build remains.
http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/assassin/?p=2030200000000000000012230220110000000000323300011222100000000
Indeed this build looks quite strong, although it may still be trying to do too many things at once (force lightning caster and melee).
Indeed I'm trying to do a few things at once, that is the entire purpose of this build is to always be doing damage no matter where I am.
I ended up liking this spec a lot more due to the utility of the darkness tree.
http://war-tools.com/t73007.html?b=920332c11l122s233300112221d22000
It has greater mobility, reduced defensive CD's for survivability and the synergy between thrash, shock and the related damage increasing talents is much better than speccing into blackout and energize in the deception tree.
I also don't think it's hard to be a caster/melee at the same time. I can FL while people attempt to close hopefully proccing talents for burst/increased melee damage and when they get into melee range I thrash/maul, which increase my ranged talents...this is perfect synergy to me. Run or stay close I can hurt you.
Start to hurt me up close and I can overload/electrocute/whirlwind/force slow/force speed (which breaks incapacitating effects every 15 secs)... That is one massive list of control abilities all on CD's under a minute. AND I still have Force Shroud & Deflection to call upon, both under 2 mins CD as well.
This build will definitely require finesse to pull off and for those that can't, they will get smashed most likely. Me, all I see is synergy upon synergy...
I would change your points in Shroud of Darkness to Lightning Reflexes (if you need more survivability) or Electric Execution (for more dps) The 3% extra hp won't be noticed.
Also, I don't think Wrath will apply to "Shock" as it says "Your next attack with a cast time" It doesn't say "Cause your next attack to be instant and deal blabla".
It clearly states it needs to have a cast, if it is like this, the talent is no very useful for SA as we only have Crushing Darkness, which can also be instant through Raze.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - guardian17 - 09-06-2011 07:13 PM
I hate to be critical of the builds you are designing Sol, but in the last build you linked, you have 12 points in the darkness tree, but didn't pickup dark ward. There is absolutely no reason to not pickup such an amazing 1 point talent when you are already 12 points into the tree, and you have so many filler talents which you could easily drop. For example, you can drop 1 point in duplicity for dark ward. The value of 1 point in duplicity is a 10% chance on hit to get a half cost maul with 50% armor pen, whereas the value of dark ward (a talent which is a key talent that requires 10 points in darkness to access) is +15% shielding. There is no logical reason to put the single point in duplicity instead of dark ward if you are trying to design a maximally effective pvp build. Aside from that, your build looks fine. I do believe that the force lightning side of the madness tree was intended for sorcerrors, and by going down it you are creating a gimped sorcerror and diverting from the assassin playstyle. I could be entirely wrong about that and perhaps casting repeated force lightning's is great as an assassin as well (I have heard that force lightning is quite overpowered). So your build looks good, aside from that point in duplicity instead of dark ward.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Piree - 09-06-2011 08:43 PM
(09-06-2011 07:13 PM)guardian17 Wrote: I hate to be critical of the builds you are designing Sol, but in the last build you linked, you have 12 points in the darkness tree, but didn't pickup dark ward. There is absolutely no reason to not pickup such an amazing 1 point talent when you are already 12 points into the tree, and you have so many filler talents which you could easily drop. For example, you can drop 1 point in duplicity for dark ward. The value of 1 point in duplicity is a 10% chance on hit to get a half cost maul with 50% armor pen, whereas the value of dark ward (a talent which is a key talent that requires 10 points in darkness to access) is +15% shielding. There is no logical reason to put the single point in duplicity instead of dark ward if you are trying to design a maximally effective pvp build. Aside from that, your build looks fine. I do believe that the force lightning side of the madness tree was intended for sorcerrors, and by going down it you are creating a gimped sorcerror and diverting from the assassin playstyle. I could be entirely wrong about that and perhaps casting repeated force lightning's is great as an assassin as well (I have heard that force lightning is quite overpowered). So your build looks good, aside from that point in duplicity instead of dark ward.
The 15% shield chance requires you to have a shield generator in OH I think, if you can switch ur current OH (whatever it is) with the shield generator it is very useful, but otherwise you will never use it as you aren't using a shield.
I do agree about the playstyle, it's too sorcerish.
RE: Sith Assassin Tanking Compendium - vermura - 09-06-2011 09:44 PM
[quote='Gorodetski' pid='1741' dateline='1314934586']
true Assassin have alot of Pvp flavoured talented (lookin at you Nerve Wracking
)...but one thing I HAVE noticed is that both the other tank classes have a 'increases health by 30% for 15 seconds' talent and a 'decreased damage by 40% for 10 seconds' talent, both of which are clearly absent from Sith Assassin tank trees... now as we dont get them baseline (closest thing we have is Deflection, 50% increased Melee and Ranged defense)
[color=#1E90FF]Actually, we get something akin to Cloak of Shadows. Sorry if I use the wrong name, I'm technically a "Shadow". However, "resilience" when activated removes all dispellable effects and makes you immune to tech and force attacks for 3 seconds (improved to 5 by talents). This is very useful in PvE or PvP since you can usually see the big attack coming. Also, with there being a lot of "DoT" effects in the game, this gives us a way to get rid of them before they do any serious damage. Coupled with self healing and%2