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+--- Thread: Sith Assassin PvP (/thread-222.html)
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Kaedis - 12-09-2011 09:18 AM
Eh, arguing that it's interaction with Exploitive Strikes constitutes a large increase to crit chance is a stretch. You're talking about 2 guaranteed crits every 90 seconds, when ES only lasts for 10.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - LG-Draecor - 12-09-2011 09:54 AM
(12-09-2011 09:18 AM)Kor Wrote: Eh, arguing that it's interaction with Exploitive Strikes constitutes a large increase to crit chance is a stretch. You're talking about 2 guaranteed crits every 90 seconds, when ES only lasts for 10.
9% is large enough for me, every % counts of course.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Kaedis - 12-09-2011 09:59 AM
Quote:9% is large enough for me, every % counts of course.
But it's not 9%. ES is 9%. Recklessness just gives you a very slight increase in ES's uptime. Not really worth specifically mentioning.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - LG-Draecor - 12-09-2011 10:06 AM
(12-09-2011 09:59 AM)Kor Wrote:Quote:9% is large enough for me, every % counts of course.
But it's not 9%. ES is 9%. Recklessness just gives you a very slight increase in ES's uptime. Not really worth specifically mentioning.
What are you arguing exactly? That 9% isn't worth bringing up? Because it sure is. With crit increased, crit damage increase, armor pen increased, and force reduced Maul is a very lethal weapon.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - lgw - 12-09-2011 10:37 AM
(12-09-2011 10:06 AM)LG-Draecor Wrote: What are you arguing exactly? That 9% isn't worth bringing up? Because it sure is. With crit increased, crit damage increase, armor pen increased, and force reduced Maul is a very lethal weapon.
The assumption goes that Recklessness has only minor benefits on ES's uptime. Reasons:
* Recklessness has a long CD (90s) compared to the short duration ES (10s).
* ES OTOH depends much more on your normal crit chance and rotation, and not when you use Recklessness.
Furthermore in PVP you're much more likely to use Recklessness either to catch somebody by upgrading FL to 30m, or to setup some death combo using Re > Sh > Dis > Maul to spike a healer or such.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Scele - 12-09-2011 10:02 PM
If we assume 30% crit on force attacks and the primary force attacks in your rotation being shock and discharge, that means that roughly 1/3 attacks will trigger exploitive strikes.
With a priority of Voltaic x 2 Followed by Shock and Discharge used every 12 seconds (assuming that the talent Recirculation is maxed out) that means you get 10x shock and 5 Discharge per minute, out of which about 5 will trigger exploitive strikes. Now, since its impossible to control exactly when these crits will happen, it becomes hard to figure out the average uptime since the crits can overlap.
But assuming that the crits line up perfectly you should have a 90% or so uptime on exploitive strikes. However, when it comes to recklessness I found it much more useful for taking the last bit of HP off someone with FL or when kiting someone.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - jmac - 12-09-2011 10:25 PM
Actually, that was kind of the synergy I was looking at in the 3 way hybrid with shock. Energize + Dark Charge should increase the crit chance of shock. Exploitive strikes then increases the crit chance of melee. Add Chain Shock into the mix and your shock should be a fairly lethal and should keep the 9% up a decent portion of the time. Duplicity, Induction, and Exloitive strikes should allow Maul to hit hard, and keep the force cost low on Shock.
I keep going back and forth over Low Slash. Having one extra low cooldown CC type ability seems like it is useful, but not sure if better or worse than Disjunction. The big question to me is also does the combination of Madness shock traits and the Darkness PvP abilities make up for the loss of VS. Probably not, but interesting to debate.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - lgw - 12-09-2011 10:32 PM
(12-09-2011 10:25 PM)jmac Wrote: I keep going back and forth over Low Slash. Having one extra low cooldown CC type ability seems like it is useful, but not sure if better or worse than Disjunction.
Low Slash for me is good for three things:
* Break on a cast or even better channel (CD is consumed), especially if Jolt is on CD.
* Way to setup Maul - although good movement can do that for you in PVP just as well.
* Short timeout to grant me some Force reg and CD timing when I (and not the enemy) needs it.
Disjuction is most important to allow us to stay on target much better. The quest is if you really need it if you already have skilled Force Slow.
You still could get both (plus Energize / Dark Ward) if you're willing to skip either Torment or full Chain Shock.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - jmac - 12-09-2011 11:00 PM
(12-09-2011 10:32 PM)lgw Wrote:(12-09-2011 10:25 PM)jmac Wrote: I keep going back and forth over Low Slash. Having one extra low cooldown CC type ability seems like it is useful, but not sure if better or worse than Disjunction.
Low Slash for me is good for three things:
* Break on a cast or even better channel (CD is consumed), especially if Jolt is on CD.
* Way to setup Maul - although good movement can do that for you in PVP just as well.
* Short timeout to grant me some Force reg and CD timing when I (and not the enemy) needs it.
Disjuction is most important to allow us to stay on target much better. The quest is if you really need it if you already have skilled Force Slow.
You still could get both (plus Energize / Dark Ward) if you're willing to skip either Torment or full Chain Shock.
Yeah, I already dumped torment unfortunately. Since shock seems to be a big component to this build, I wanted to avoid cutting back on chain shock. In addition it seems PvP lends itself to burning most of your force and then returning to stealth to regenerate.
It really is similar to a pure Deception/Darkness build, but allows you to add even more defense into the equation with Dark Ward and Sith Defiance. The synergy of Energize / Chain Shock just makes up for not having the Crackling Blast and VS. (Not sure which does more shock damage). The Exploitive Strikes/Energize synergy just helps mitigate the melee damage lost for not having VS. The advantage in this trade is it helps move, in a very inefficient manner, some of the damage across other melee attacks such as Maul. This is due to relying on a heavy uptime of the crit buff that applies to all melee damage.
The thought is as players get better at their defensive strategies, this allows the Assassin to survive a longer 1v1 encounter before returning to stealth to regain the massive amount of force they just burned. They also would be able to survive better in the battle "clumps" that seem to form.
RE: Sith Assassin PvP - Scele - 12-09-2011 11:10 PM
(12-09-2011 10:25 PM)jmac Wrote: Actually, that was kind of the synergy I was looking at in the 3 way hybrid with shock. Energize + Dark Charge should increase the crit chance of shock. Exploitive strikes then increases the crit chance of melee. Add Chain Shock into the mix and your shock should be a fairly lethal and should keep the 9% up a decent portion of the time. Duplicity, Induction, and Exloitive strikes should allow Maul to hit hard, and keep the force cost low on Shock.
I keep going back and forth over Low Slash. Having one extra low cooldown CC type ability seems like it is useful, but not sure if better or worse than Disjunction. The big question to me is also does the combination of Madness shock traits and the Darkness PvP abilities make up for the loss of VS. Probably not, but interesting to debate.
My immediate thought is that you should do the math on chain shock vs crackling blasts, because with shock being your main focus, 50% increased crit damage with the crit shock proc from energize appears to be a nice source of burst. It also means that you would be running dark charge instead of surging charge rendering that entire line useless for you. You are also losing out on 15% shock bonus damage per use of voltaic slash.
I'd be tempted to say that you're actually giving up shock burst by going the three-way hybrid as opposed to going for something like 0-33-7.
I see low slash kind of like gouge for a WoW rogue, its something you use to A get 2 globals worth of regen, and B to setup a second burst. Disjunction is nice for PvP, but it comes down to the prevalence of movement impairing effects and whether or not you feel the need for extra protection from them.