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+--- Thread: Carnage | Discipline Discussion (/thread-181.html)
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Wazooty - 01-02-2012 10:37 AM
From what I read on page 5, it seems rather up in the air as to whether gore or battering assault is higher on the priority list. Is there a consensus on those two?
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - LagunaD - 01-02-2012 04:47 PM
(01-02-2012 10:37 AM)Wazooty Wrote: From what I read on page 5, it seems rather up in the air as to whether gore or battering assault is higher on the priority list. Is there a consensus on those two?
Well, you can see there is no consensus...
I think the main issue is that the priority lists on Page 5 need more conditional logic.
You want to be able to use the armor penetration from Gore on high-damage abilities, not rage-building.
So if Gore and BA are both up, I would say your choice depends on how much rage you have and whether Ravage is also up. If you can fill the next 3 GCDs after Gore with some combination of Massacre, Force Scream and/or Ravage (possibly assisted by Berserk), you should use Gore first. If you are going to run out of resources before the Gore buff expires, you should use BA first, and then Gore.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Deet - 01-05-2012 08:26 PM
I've been poking around quite a bit and decided to register and share my own personal observations. Keep in mind that my talents do not lay within the mathematical department so what I post will be strictly observational at this point.
I am currently level 50 in 2 piece rakata and 2 piece columbi, initially after browsing these forums I started stacking ACC trying to reach the 110% supposition. What I noticed in doing so is that I seemed to actually drop in damage significantly past about 106%, I've reached about 108.2%. That of course made me curious, I started to replace ACC with Crit/Surge slowly mod by mod and I've come to the conclusion that the supposition is incorrect, at least from my stand point.
Note: A good place to check damage on a gear level is the 4th boss in EV, if you trust yourself to keep the same priority correctly you can roughly gauge your output by timing the encounter from week to week. (By dropping ACC and gaining crit/surge I dropped my kill time by almost 15 seconds.)
I am currently sitting at around 105.80 ACC and I've experienced no misses white/yellow on any heroic level bosses at this time, due to the nature of the fights I might be missing the floating texts but I've double and triple checked over the past two weeks to be sure. If bosses do have melee defense it's lower than 10%. I have checked with a few other Jedi Sentinels on my server (swiftsure) who have gotten similar results with around the same ACC (105).
That being said, I am not sure if 105 is even needed, as far as increasing offhand damage I can't really see the point if it's sacrificing a greater damage potential from main hand attacks (which has a higher damage range). If I am incorrect in this assumption or if anyone has a contradiction, please share.
As of right now I am currently gearing to this stat weight -
Str > Acc (105) > crit surge
Since I am at 105, I am stacking crit/surge. Since most ACC mods already have power on them to varying degrees I am basically just including that within the ACC gear I am currently wearing. I am not sure if I will put crit above power but it's definitely a possibility.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Freehugs - 01-05-2012 08:35 PM
There's no substitute for testing Deet. Accuracy up to the cap for special attacks should improve damage more than crit or surge...in theory...but if you can try out different stats that would be great.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Deet - 01-05-2012 08:48 PM
(01-05-2012 08:35 PM)Freehugs Wrote: There's no substitute for testing Deet. Accuracy up to the cap for special attacks should improve damage more than crit or surge...in theory...but if you can try out different stats that would be great.
Is there an ACC cap for special attacks? I was under the impression the 110% was based off a guess of unknown game mechanics. If that changed somewhere here on the forums I need to stop skimming and start actually reading again!
I am still in the process of working things out; as far as my gear and my stats will change quite a bit as a I gear up a bit more. It's getting expensive pulling mods for different stat weights but it's been a lot of fun trying different stuff out. I hope everyone else is enjoying their Sent/Mara as much as I am!
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Freehugs - 01-06-2012 08:15 AM
(01-05-2012 08:48 PM)Deet Wrote: Is there an ACC cap for special attacks? I was under the impression the 110% was based off a guess of unknown game mechanics.
It wasn't a guess, but the info is old and probably wrong.
Bosses surely have some amount of defense, and that defense can be overcome with accuracy. The trick is to figure out how much defense exactly. Not having a combat log to parse makes it very difficult though, and it may vary per boss and vary for the different difficulty ratings.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - LagunaD - 01-06-2012 10:43 AM
The conventional wisdom at the moment seems to be that enemies do not have any Force Resistance ( = avoidance for Force attacks), and if so Accuracy is our least valuable secondary stat.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Deet - 01-06-2012 06:19 PM
(01-06-2012 10:43 AM)LagunaD Wrote: The conventional wisdom at the moment seems to be that enemies do not have any Force Resistance ( = avoidance for Force attacks), and if so Accuracy is our least valuable secondary stat.
I still think ACC to a certain point is going to be required but finding that point is a problem atm it seems.
At 105.44% ACC now, I got my first miss that I've seen doing HM Soa tonight. If there was one, there might be others I am missing but it's very rare. I dropped my crit/surge rakata trinket and replaced it with the greenx3 matrix str/end/crit trinket. Blowing my rakata power trinket with the straight stat trinket seems to have slightly increased damage for me. I am of the opinion that constant stats will always win out against clicky/cooldown as far as trinkets go (unless the disparity is just that large).
Bottom line is I can confirm what has already been stated : Force power > Crit/surge
HM Soa at 4% when servers went down /sigh
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Bane - 01-06-2012 06:37 PM
I think the best combo for relics is the Matrix Cube (3x Green) + Rakata "X". X being whatever stat benefits you the most. This is mainly due to Rakata relics sharing a cooldown.
As for which stat benefits you the most. If you are stacking Power, and you use a +Power relic, you will see less overall increase in damage because of diminishing returns. However if you use a +crit +surge relic while stacking Power, then the benefits will be a lot greater because diminishing returns won't be as high. The same goes, if you're stacking Crit and Surge and use a +Power relic, you'll see a greater increase, than if you used a +Crit +Surge relic.
I started off following the general consensus of Accuracy (110%) > Power > Accuracy (above 110%), however my damage appeared to be overall pretty weak. Plus the amount of extra damage vs points of power spent is pretty low. I had 425 power before i saw a +100 damage increase. So I spent a lot of credits on crit + surge enhancements and swapped out all my gear, following a new stat priority of Accuracy (100%) > Surge > Power > Crit. I haven't noticed any missed attacks, after going below 110% (or 108.2% was the highest I got to), but I haven't started nightmare yet - so maybe as the difficulty goes up, the bosses gain resistances so you need more accuracy ??
I'm basing my assumptions on the 4th boss in EV - and previously I was 3rd out of the DPS to kill the target, after this change I was first by a good 12 seconds. Force scream crits for 3.8k and ataru procs are 670-780 crits. I'm not much of a hardcore theorycrafter, but even doing the dailies, and repeats of flashpoints, things are dying a lot quicker, and without a combat log, I don't know much in the way of solid evidence, and I'm too poor to keep switching out enhancements to get a better breakdown of damage per stat increase.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - LagunaD - 01-06-2012 07:01 PM
(01-06-2012 06:19 PM)Deet Wrote: I still think ACC to a certain point is going to be required but finding that point is a problem atm it seems.
The numbers are what they are. If Force attacks are never avoided, Accuracy Rating is subpar, much like going over the Spell Hit cap on an Enhancement Shaman.
(01-06-2012 06:37 PM)Bane Wrote: As for which stat benefits you the most. If you are stacking Power, and you use a +Power relic, you will see less overall increase in damage because of diminishing returns.
There are no diminishing returns on Power.