+- SWTOR Mechanics Forums (http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums)
+-- Forum: Class Discussion (/forum-7.html)
+--- Forum: Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight (/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: Carnage | Discipline Discussion (/thread-181.html)
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Mertox - 01-26-2012 04:15 PM
Ravage is not a DPS loss, it's only a DPS loss if you use it without Gore. Also another thing to note is try to stay away from Assault as best as you can, if you HAVE to use it...use it, but rely more on Battering Assault for your Rage build-up.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - KlonoaPrower - 01-26-2012 04:34 PM
Hrmm... probably been playing Huttball too much, but it does look like you're right. And yeah, pretty much Assault exists if none of the other buttons work at the time. But since there's no Auto Attacking in this game, hitting some button is better than standing there like a derp waiting for CDs.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - dante2387 - 01-26-2012 04:44 PM
hey some of you might remember me mentioning about carnage being good on operations few pages ago,seem some people figured out reason behind the bug http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=229775 there's an official bioware response on one of pages too....but yea as long as this bug exist carnage will be a lot less useful,since simply on most fights(Karagga's annihlation droid,Gharj,bonethrasher especially) you cant afford to be exactly under boss,for ataru form strike to work,cause you'll get cleaved in most cases
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Mertox - 01-26-2012 04:50 PM
Hmm it's happened to me a few times, but not that often. I would say it's not game breaking (for me at least) but it easily can be.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Ezmode - 01-26-2012 05:59 PM
(01-26-2012 04:14 PM)KlonoaPrower Wrote: Is using Rupture a DPS loss or gain? (I've heard conflicting theories backed by no data)
Is using Ravage a DPS loss or gain? (I've heard conflicting theories backed by no data)
-- Both Rupture and Ravage are DPS losses. Rupture costs too much rage to be useful, especially when you can get two massacres for the same amount of rage. Ravage is a waste of two GCDs and only really has limited application when talented.
Rupture costs less rage than Massacre. And yes, Ravage is a waste of two GCDs and the talent is horrible for boss fights, however, using Ravage and cancelling the channel right after the second hit has been shown to be beneficial than swinging for 3 seconds.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - LagunaD - 01-26-2012 08:13 PM
(01-26-2012 05:59 PM)Ezmode Wrote: Rupture costs less rage than Massacre.
Massacre refunds a point of rage immediately, so this is not really true. You need 3 rage to use Massacre, and only 2 to use Rupture, but the net rage cost after the insta-refund is identical.
Klonoa's statement that "you can get two massacres for the same amount of rage" may be referring to the refund of another point of rage when Blood Frenzy expires, but this is trickier to account for since Blood Frenzy doesn't stack.
(01-26-2012 05:59 PM)Ezmode Wrote: And yes, Ravage is a waste of two GCDs
Why do you say say this?
The total expected damage from Ravage (including Accuracy/Avoidance) is only slightly (~6%?) less than 2x(Massacre + Ataru), and it costs no rage. So you should really compare Ravage's DPS (over two GCDs) to Massacre + Assault (over 2 GCDs) or 3xMassacre + Battering Assault (over 4 GCDs). In either case, Ravage will come out ahead.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Ezmode - 01-27-2012 05:34 AM
(01-26-2012 08:13 PM)LagunaD Wrote:(01-26-2012 05:59 PM)Ezmode Wrote: Rupture costs less rage than Massacre.
Massacre refunds a point of rage immediately, so this is not really true. You need 3 rage to use Massacre, and only 2 to use Rupture, but the net rage cost after the insta-refund is identical.
Klonoa's statement that "you can get two massacres for the same amount of rage" may be referring to the refund of another point of rage when Blood Frenzy expires, but this is trickier to account for since Blood Frenzy doesn't stack.
Enraged Slash slipped my mind and I completely ignored Blood Frenzy. I simply looked at the base rage costs instead of considering everything else. My mistake.
(01-26-2012 08:13 PM)LagunaD Wrote:(01-26-2012 05:59 PM)Ezmode Wrote: And yes, Ravage is a waste of two GCDs
Why do you say say this?
The total expected damage from Ravage (including Accuracy/Avoidance) is only slightly (~6%?) less than 2x(Massacre + Ataru), and it costs no rage. So you should really compare Ravage's DPS (over two GCDs) to Massacre + Assault (over 2 GCDs) or 3xMassacre + Battering Assault (over 4 GCDs). In either case, Ravage will come out ahead.
This would be because of my bias against Ravage since I first saw it. In addition, with there only so few melee friendly fights, managing to complete Ravage every time just seems unpredictable which is my biggest issue with it. I would rather use any other abilities while on the move than having to figure out if "now" is the right time to be able to use Ravage. But yes, Ravage does outperform Massacre+Ataru and by a wide margin too and it is not like I am unwilling to adapt and use Ravage, I have started play with partial Ravages and like it pretty well.
Bottom line is that I should not post anything after 12AM, clearly I can not think things through.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Mertox - 01-27-2012 05:38 AM
Understand the bias but Ravage is good DPS when coupled with Gore and Gore only.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - Ezmode - 01-27-2012 05:43 AM
Very likely, it does do a ton of damage. I'll play with the numbers and have some more substantial information to report in the near future.
RE: Carnage discipline discussion - LagunaD - 01-27-2012 06:15 AM
(01-27-2012 05:38 AM)Mertox Wrote: Understand the bias but Ravage is good DPS when coupled with Gore and Gore only.
If Ravage is a better choice than some other ability when the Gore buff is up, it is also a better choice when the Gore buff is not up, since all Gore does is scale the damage of both abilities by the same factor.