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Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Masterkiller - 07-15-2011 02:14 AM
This is very old post from June/July.
-edit- Compendium will be coming early January.
If you haven't read it before, I recommend you read my analysis on the Advanced Class Update, since some ground work was started there.
The base ability of the Annihilation disc is going to be Annihilate.
Annihilate : Cooldown 12 seconds
Strikes the target with both Lightsabers for 547-633 damage. Each use of this ability grants Annihilator for 15 seconds, lowering the cooldown of your next Annihilate by 1.5 seconds. Stacks up to three times. Requires two Lightsabers.
With all 3 stacks up you are reducing the cooldown from 12 seconds to 7.5 seconds. With a 1.5 second global cooldown this means using Annihilation once every 5 GCD’s instead of every 8 GCD’s. This also makes me think Annihilate will cost Rage and not grant Rage. So the 4 GCD’s between Annihilates will be used to generate rage.
Inescapable Torment : Passive
Choked targets take 30% more damage from your next 5 bleed effects. Lasts 15 seconds.
This appears to be another major component of the Annihilation disc. We also now have information on Overload Saber.
Overload Lightsaber - Charges your lightsabers with deadly energy for 15 seconds, causing your next 3 successfull melee attacks to make the target burn (bleed aka burn effect) for 491 ELEMENTAL damage for 6 seconds.Stacks up to 3 times.This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds
It isn't specified if this is a passive ability or if it is an ability with a cooldown aside from the 1.5 cooldown that prevents it from being proc'd by both sabers at the same time. It should be buffed by Inescapable Torment.
So the things we know about Annihilation so far is:
- Use Annihilate every 5th GCD.
- Bleed effects are buffed and would appear to be a priority.
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Pantelijus - 07-22-2011 04:02 AM
Judging from the talents and Juyo form we can speculate about rotation
Juyo Form stacks up to 5 times providing 10% damage increase (2% per stack)
Juyo Mastery(passive)-Your burn/bleed effects are 3% likely to critically hit per stack of Juyo form.
Searing Saber(linked to Juyo Mastery)(passive) - Increases your critical strike damage of your burn/bleed effects by 30%.
Repelling Blows(passive)-Increases direct damage done by Cauterize(Rupture in Sith Warriors case) and
Merciless Slash (this is Annihilate for Sith Warrior 100% sure) by 10%.
Merciless Zeal(passive)-Critical hits with your burn/bleed effects heal u for 2% of max hp.
Inescapable Torment(Mind Sear for Jedi Knight)- Choked (Force Stasis) targets take 30% more damage
from next 5 burn/bleed effects .
Burning Force(passive) -Your burn/bleed effects have a 10% chance to generate 1 rage/focus.
This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.
Plasma Blades(passive)- Increases damage dealt by your burn/bleed effects by 15%.
So far benefits of Annihilation tree :
1) Burn/Bleed effects have increased 15% to crit (3% x 5 stacks of Yujo form)
2) 15% more damage on Burn/Bleed effects
3) Crit damage of Burn/Bleed effects increased by 30%
4) Burn effects can (10%) generate 1 Rage/Focus per 1.5 sec (GCD)
5) Potential to burst (or apply pressure in PvP) through enhanced bleed/burn effects with Force Choke
6) Critical effects from Burn/Bleed effects heal u for 2% of max hp (very very usefull in PvP)
Rotation :
Battering Assault generates 3 Rage with a 4.5 sec CD
Assault generates 2 Rage NO CD
Rupture costs 3 Rage
Overload Lightsaber has 12 sec CD so we can say it isnt a passive but more of a active ability
Also we can asume it costs rage
Annihilate costs 5 Rage but there is a talent that has 100% to refund 1 Rage
Carnage has talent for Impale to strike with both sabers that means Annihilate spec wont use it (damage vs rage cost ratio)
Starting Rotation should be something like this:
Battering Assault (GCD) Rupture (GCD) Assault (GCD) Overload Lightsaber (GCD) Battering Assault (GCD) Annihilate (GCD)
+3 RAge -3 Rage +2 Rage (assuming) -2 Rage +3 Rage -5+1 Rage (talent)
Ofc we must take in account Burning Force talent which has a 10% to generate 1 Rage per 1.5 sec
However Rupture has 12 sec duration while Overload Saber has 12 sec CD which gives alot of space for speculation.
We dont know the full info on Overload Lightsaber and that thing is kinda stopping us from going further.
Thoughts and more speculation are always welcome and please correct me if i wrote something wrong.
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Masterkiller - 07-22-2011 05:51 AM
Wow lots of new info there. +Rep for you.
Annihilation is looking very DoT based at this point, like an Unholy DK.
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - ugru - 07-23-2011 07:11 AM
(07-15-2011 02:14 AM)Masterkiller Wrote: .
.
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Overload Lightsaber - Charges your lightsabers with deadly energy for 15 seconds, causing your next 3 successfull melee attacks to make the target burn (bleed aka burn effect) for 491 ELEMENTAL damage for 6 seconds.Stacks up to 3 times.This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds
.
.
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- Bleed effects are buffed and would appear to be a priority.
A lot of Willpower will be a useful here, hence the presence of that stat on that Dark Jedi purple Set.
Willpower could be a nice stat for DPS Jug and for Marauder....
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Masterkiller - 08-10-2011 05:21 AM
Looking at the rotation you submitted:
Battering Assault (+3) -> Rupture (-3) -> Assault (+2) -> Overload Lightsaber (-2) -> Battering Assault (+3) -> Annihilate (-5)
If Annihilate takes 5 Rage, we'd be 2 rage short for our Annihilate. We could get lucky with 2 Burning Force procs with good RNG but for the most part we'll be short. I had originally thought Annihilate would be our top priority, but with all the DoT based talent buffs it's quite clear that keeping your bleed effects up is going to be our #1 priority. With that in mind I do like the fact that your rotation is getting bleed effects up very quickly.
Rupture - Stabs the target for 143-164 damage, and deals an additional 217 internal damage over 12 seconds.
- I'm THINKING Rupture doesn't stack. Either it's up or it's not otherwise the rotation would get much much simpler.
Overload Lightsaber - Charges your lightsabers with deadly energy for 15 seconds, causing your next 3 successfull melee attacks to make the target burn (bleed aka burn effect) for 491 ELEMENTAL damage for 6 seconds.Stacks up to 3 times.This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds
- This would appear to be the 2nd DoT you would want to keep up at all times and would need to be used once every 10 GCD's.
It's DK with a Lightsaber (I'll feel right at home!). So first thing you want to do, like Pantelijus showed, is get your diseases...*cough*...bleeds up.
Inescapable Torment - Choked targets take 30% more damage from next 5 burn/bleed effects .
- This will likely be used after the bleeds are up. This is a bit confusing, is this while the target is choked or after the target is choked? Is it only applied to bleeds that the sith warrior applied? A single bleed effect wouldn't be able to tick 5 times during the choke, however with both Rupture and Overload Lightsaber ticking it could. Do ticks take place every GCD? So many questions...
So modifying the above rotation and looking at it from a rage perspective it would look like:
Battering Assault (+3) -> Rupture (-3) -> Assault (+2) -> Overload Lightsaber (-2) -> Battering Assault (+3) -> Assault (+2) -> Annihilate (-5)(+1)
Looking at it from a GCD and bleed perspective it would look like:
GCD:Time
1:0 Battering Assault
2:1.5 Rupture (lasts until 13.5")
3:3 Assault
4:4.5 Overload Lightsaber
5:6 Battering Assault (x1 stack of OL)
6:7.5 Assault (x2 stack of OL)
7:9 Annihilate (x3 stack of OL, Lasts until 15")
8:10.5 Force Choke (lasts until 16.5)
9:12 Force Choke
10:13.5 Force Choke (Rupture Drops)
15:15 Force Choke (Overload Lightsaber drops)
16:16.5 Force Choke
This has maximized Inescapable Torment, but it has let Rupture and Overload Lightsaber drop.
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Sennin - 08-10-2011 09:15 AM
(08-10-2011 05:21 AM)Masterkiller Wrote: It's DK with a Lightsaber (I'll feel right at home!). So first thing you want to do, like Pantelijus showed, is get your diseases...*cough*...bleeds up.
Inescapable Torment - Choked targets take 30% more damage from next 5 burn/bleed effects .
- This will likely be used after the bleeds are up. This is a bit confusing, is this while the target is choked or after the target is choked? Is it only applied to bleeds that the sith warrior applied? A single bleed effect wouldn't be able to tick 5 times during the choke, however with both Rupture and Overload Lightsaber ticking it could. Do ticks take place every GCD? So many questions...
So modifying the above rotation and looking at it from a rage perspective it would look like:
Battering Assault (+3) -> Rupture (-3) -> Assault (+2) -> Overload Lightsaber (-2) -> Battering Assault (+3) -> Assault (+2) -> Annihilate (-5)(+1)
As my first post I have to say I like what everyone has started on here figuring this stuff out. But unless I'm missing something, why not just remove your second Battering Assault and Assault from the above rotation and insert Force Choke ( a rage generator and uses Inescapable Torment) immediately after your bleeds are applied and prepares you for the Annihilate.
Like this:
Battering Assault (+3) -> Rupture (-3) -> Assault (+2) -> Overload Lightsaber (-2) -> Force Choke (+6) -> Annihilate (-5)(+1)
Force Choke - Chokes the target, leaving them suspended in the air while the Warrior channels the ability. The target takes very high damage over 6 seconds and causes you to generate 1 Rage per second while channeled.
This would give the benefit of increasing bleed damage, incapacitating the target and generating rage for the big finisher of a rotation. You guys have gone down further into the weeds with the math so far with stuff on this site, but I thought this might be the missing link that everyone knows but just hasn't mentioned or something.
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Masterkiller - 08-10-2011 10:21 AM
Welcome! The way I looked at it, you want to get all 3 stacks of Overload Lightsaber up. You'll need 3 attacks to get all three up THEN use Force Choke. Otherwise you are missing the DoTs from Overload Lighsaber, if what i deducted from the description is correct.
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Sennin - 08-10-2011 11:09 AM
(08-10-2011 10:21 AM)Masterkiller Wrote: Welcome! The way I looked at it, you want to get all 3 stacks of Overload Lightsaber up. You'll need 3 attacks to get all three up THEN use Force Choke. Otherwise you are missing the DoTs from Overload Lighsaber, if what i deducted from the description is correct.
Yes, thank you, I forgot about getting the three stacks of Overload Saber up. But I think I found out what we need from the Annihilation tree, maybe.
Close Quarters - Reduces the minimum range of Force Charge by 8 meters.
and
Force Charge - Launches you toward a distant target, immobilizing them for a few seconds and interrupting their current action, dealing low damage. Generates 3 Rage.
This way, we could start the rotation with Force Charge (+3), from any range < 30m essentially and even use it throughout the rotation once we're right up on it (wonder if it counts as a melee attack for purposes of Overload Saber application though, looks melee in videos).
This might modify the rotation as follows:
Force Charge (+3) -> Battering Assault (+3) -> Rupture (-3) -> Overload Lightsaber (-2) -> Assault (+2)-> Battering Assault (+3) -> Annihilate (-5)(+1)-> Force Choke (+6) -> Repeat process ??
Also, I thought the cooldown of Force Choke was 15 seconds (30s original) if you took the Improved Force Choke talent from the Rage tree, so I would think that spamming choke over and over would be impossible so might as well just keep your bleeds up.
Also, this rotation would gain a net of 1 rage, for what I don't know yet. But, I've been wondering if the Marauder would get a mirror of the Sentinel talent, "Momentum 2/2, which has 100% chance to make your next Blade Storm (equivalent of Force Scream for SW I think) cost no focus."
If this is the case, then maybe a Force Scream would fit somewhere in as well since it would be free, or maybe offer a ranged option into the rotation where an encounter needed more standoff from raid boss mechanics such as Rampage, Enrage, etc. ( Yes I am coming out of retirement from EQ for this game, hah, that was the first and last MMO I played and loved for years).
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Sennin - 08-10-2011 10:27 PM
(08-10-2011 11:09 AM)Sennin Wrote: Also, I thought the cooldown of Force Choke was 15 seconds (30s original) if you took the Improved Force Choke talent from the Rage tree, so I would think that spamming choke over and over would be impossible so might as well just keep your bleeds up.
Also, this rotation would gain a net of 1 rage, for what I don't know yet. But, I've been wondering if the Marauder would get a mirror of the Sentinel talent, "Momentum 2/2, which has 100% chance to make your next Blade Storm (equivalent of Force Scream for SW I think) cost no focus."
Pardon the brainfart(s). I read your original post wrong, it wasn't a spammed Force Choke, but you were counting/showing the duration of Force Choke in a way that initially threw me.
I was doing some reading and saw that Force Choke was changed to a 3 sec channel w/ a 1 min cooldown.
Taking this into account, and my horrible math from other post, this rotation would net +5 Rage when you include Force Choke at the end.
Maybe these long cooldowns, require us to have multiple small rotations, where Force Choke would be part of the first one, generate some extra Rage, and then be removed from the second, substituted for a bigger hitter such as Ravage, or maybe Annihilate would be started earlier and earlier in each rotation to take advantage of its diminishing cooldown buff.
I think the abilities are in so much flux that it will be very hard to nail it down right now.
RE: Annihilation Discipline abilities and rotation discussion - Masterkiller - 08-10-2011 10:31 PM
(08-10-2011 10:27 PM)Sennin Wrote: I was doing some reading and saw that Force Choke was changed to a 3 sec channel w/ a 1 min cooldown.
Anubis and I were JUST talking about this yesterday, 6 seconds is an EXTREMELY long channel. Do you have any reference of the change?