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+--- Thread: [Patch 1.0-1.1 ARCHIVE] Mercenary | Commando DPS Compendium (/thread-1003.html)
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - Allah - 03-13-2012 10:02 AM
(03-13-2012 08:22 AM)GWARRR Wrote: So the more Aim, the more Power you have, the better Tracer Missile gets in comparison to Power Shot. If with only 1400 Aim gets you 200 damage extra if you TM over PS, with higher levels of Aim, Power that you get with tiered gear, it adds up to a HUGE DPS loss that I'm not even sure extra resets on Rail Shot can overcome (no matter how much I love Rail Shot, I'm not sure it can be overcome).
Assuming you have enough Crit (~30-35%), then combined with the 2pc PvE bonus, your Tracers are critting 50% of the time. Which means that the expected heat venting will be 8 heat every three seconds. I'm not sure Pyro can match that sort of heat regeneration. I would say if you don't have enough crit, Pyro's heat regen would outstrip the TV proc regens. In addition, I'd say that TV procs are a "safer" regen mechanic for heat management than Pyro's: Pyro's can yield some insane results, but you've got to be making sacrifices to the RNG gods or else you can get shafted more often than you'd like.
Without combat logs we can't be certain, but personally I discourage hybridizing for Mercenaries since their trees are designed against hybridization. With the hybrid build you give up quite a huge chunk of DPS having to resort to Power Shot for Rail Shot procs, and other things such as Barrage and extra crit chance that you can get with extra points lying around if you specialize into one tree. As you also noted, having to juggle between half-Arsenal and half-Pyro rotations can get exceedingly complex and may not be worth the hassle.
At 2k aim and like 350 power or so power shot's average damage is still 100 more damage than tracer.
Also, you arent going to be venting 8 heat per 3 seconds with tracer, sorry isnt happening. Once you vent 8 heat you go on icd for 3 seconds then you get a chance. And 3 50% casts chance of critting is like 85% or so. So if you are quite lucky you will actually be venting heat once every 6 seconds.
But yes, that spec would be trash, barrage is too good and heat management means shit when my barrage proc'ed unload does more damage in 2.5 seconds than you can do in 6 seconds.
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - Dctr - 03-13-2012 10:16 AM
Thanks GWARRR for having taken time to make such a complete answer. I guess it saved me a lot of time and headaches
Looking forward for your Pyro Guide
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - GWARRR - 03-13-2012 11:15 AM
(03-13-2012 10:02 AM)Allah Wrote: At 2k aim and like 350 power or so power shot's average damage is still 100 more damage than tracer.
Also, you arent going to be venting 8 heat per 3 seconds with tracer, sorry isnt happening. Once you vent 8 heat you go on icd for 3 seconds then you get a chance. And 3 50% casts chance of critting is like 85% or so. So if you are quite lucky you will actually be venting heat once every 6 seconds.
Correct, I forgot to consider the AMP for Power Shot, which is 0.33. I'm guessing tiered gear's weapon damage allows Power Shot to surpass Tracer Missile's. But Tracer Missile will do better damage during leveling (not a primary concern here, obviously) since your weapons don't change often enough to scale properly with your level. Ditto on the TV procs, I'm not thinking very well at the moment after loading my brain up with stuff relating to mixed-strategy Nash equilibria.
Question for Pyros out there: do you take Thermal Detonator or do you leave it? Discuss.
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - kray - 03-14-2012 01:42 AM
(03-13-2012 11:15 AM)GWARRR Wrote:(03-13-2012 10:02 AM)Allah Wrote: At 2k aim and like 350 power or so power shot's average damage is still 100 more damage than tracer.
Also, you arent going to be venting 8 heat per 3 seconds with tracer, sorry isnt happening. Once you vent 8 heat you go on icd for 3 seconds then you get a chance. And 3 50% casts chance of critting is like 85% or so. So if you are quite lucky you will actually be venting heat once every 6 seconds.
Correct, I forgot to consider the AMP for Power Shot, which is 0.33. I'm guessing tiered gear's weapon damage allows Power Shot to surpass Tracer Missile's. But Tracer Missile will do better damage during leveling (not a primary concern here, obviously) since your weapons don't change often enough to scale properly with your level. Ditto on the TV procs, I'm not thinking very well at the moment after loading my brain up with stuff relating to mixed-strategy Nash equilibria.
Question for Pyros out there: do you take Thermal Detonator or do you leave it? Discuss.
Speaking from a Powertech perspective, the only reason we don't take TD is because Flame Burst is what replaces it, which is cheaper, automatically procs CGC, and has a chance to proc PPA. In my simulations, if I spec into TD and then run one set using it, one set without, the DPS difference is truly minimal.
Because you guys don't get Flame Burst, I would recommend going for it. I mean, it still hits hard and crits even harder!
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - Aldare - 03-14-2012 02:28 AM
(03-13-2012 11:15 AM)GWARRR Wrote: Question for Pyros out there: do you take Thermal Detonator or do you leave it? Discuss.
I always take Thermal Detonator. If nothing else it's another attack you can cast while on the move, and the talents you can pick up by leaving it out are situational (reduced pushback in Arsenal for instance) in my opinion. I also consider Automated Defenses a very useful Heat Management tool, especially considering the RNG of Particle Accelerator procs.
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - hxxr - 03-14-2012 04:53 AM
@Dctr:
Neither full arsenal nor full pyro gives me any kind of heat problem. Of course, when Vent Heat is up I don't watch heat and spam abilites no matter what and vent afterwards if crits and barrage procs weren't favorable.
Tracer Missile and Power Shot deal roughly the same damage with PS's maximum damage being a little higher - and minimum being a bit lower.
(03-13-2012 08:22 AM)GWARRR Wrote: With 1.2 this guide WILL be expanding to adequately handle Pyro builds (yayyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). I have been playing Pyro Merc for the last week or so and it's fantastic (playing Assault VG made learning Pyro Merc easy). The DPS potential is great, and more than viable. If you have any extra tips or special things you think should be mentioned, I'd love it if you PM'd me those ideas/stufz.
Pyro is great and I currently prefer it because of the pretty Power Shot animation.
I wouldn't be surprised if parses in 1.2 show that personal dps is higher than for Arsenal, given the fact that there is no simulator that correctly handles the Pyro 'rotation'. But missing an armor debuff for the raid of course hurts.
(03-13-2012 11:15 AM)GWARRR Wrote: Question for Pyros out there: do you take Thermal Detonator or do you leave it? Discuss.
Thermal Detonator costs the same heat cost as Power Shot, is an instant cast and deals about 180% of it's damage - it's a DPS increase, better for managing heat and usable while moving. The delay is not a concern in PvE ... it's neither good for us, nor is it a disadvantage.
And with high crit chances on almost anything (tech crit from talents and PS crit from the 2pc bonus) your Thermal Sensor Override has an effective cooldown of 30-40 seconds wich allows frequent use of free Fusion Missiles - wich even can be followed up by a free Incin Missile (or any other instant/channeled ability).
So despite the last talents in the Pyro tree don't look like much at a first glance, they're quite strong actually - and no doubt bring a better damage increase then eg. 16 more vented heat for Vent Heat.
Reduced pushback is not a PvE talent, even without it your DoTs make quick work of the Council dudes and if you're getting hit frequently in other fights your tanks are doing it wrong.
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - Allah - 03-14-2012 09:15 AM
(03-13-2012 11:15 AM)GWARRR Wrote:(03-13-2012 10:02 AM)Allah Wrote: At 2k aim and like 350 power or so power shot's average damage is still 100 more damage than tracer.
Also, you arent going to be venting 8 heat per 3 seconds with tracer, sorry isnt happening. Once you vent 8 heat you go on icd for 3 seconds then you get a chance. And 3 50% casts chance of critting is like 85% or so. So if you are quite lucky you will actually be venting heat once every 6 seconds.
Correct, I forgot to consider the AMP for Power Shot, which is 0.33. I'm guessing tiered gear's weapon damage allows Power Shot to surpass Tracer Missile's. But Tracer Missile will do better damage during leveling (not a primary concern here, obviously) since your weapons don't change often enough to scale properly with your level. Ditto on the TV procs, I'm not thinking very well at the moment after loading my brain up with stuff relating to mixed-strategy Nash equilibria.
Question for Pyros out there: do you take Thermal Detonator or do you leave it? Discuss.
Yeah, I have rakata weapons for that comparision i gave you.
ps: Game theory is good shit, enjoyed that class in college.
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - Gorlough - 03-15-2012 01:40 AM
Once again I'm going to be devils advocate for 28 Point Arsenal Hybrids (and hybridization in general).
Dctrs' build looks tempting at first glance, but missing out on barrage really is an enthusiasm breaker here.
It would be superior, if you would only miss HSM - but Barrage is simply the most havoc wrecking talent arsenals got at their disposal. Therefore, if you go hybrid, you'll have to have or weight up Barrage (which leaves me personally to the 28 point hybrid).
HSM is all nice and that, but it takes to many prerequisites (full stacks) to be effective for me. After doing quite some operations, HM flashpoints and PvP, I'm deeply convinced that the 28/13 Arsenal/Pyro hybrid is coming out to be superior to the classic 31 points build (especially if you have the 4 pcs PvE set). And this is based mostly on Railshot hitting like a truck (85% AP) and the additional heat venting mechanism introduced to it. I do rarely overheat (just when having reaaaaally bad luck on procs) and I'm really feeling a lot more flexible than with HSM.
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - hxxr - 03-15-2012 04:44 AM
That's a spec more likely to work out.
But you trade more than HSM for the improved armor penetration on Railshot and Incin Missile ... you're also missing 6% crit chance, wich does have major synergies with Arsenal.
And again - you spend 3 talent points that are 100% wasted, someting I usually try not to do.
Maybe I'll give it a try for Karagga's this ID ... it's definately a spec that should be testet once 1.2 is available with logs.
RE: Arsenal Mercenary | Gunnery Commando DPS Compendium - Gorlough - 03-15-2012 08:32 PM
Once 1.2 is up, we'll have to review everything again anyways. As far as the comments from George Zöller go, we will see a mayor change to the arsenal tree (as in moving away from the reliance on tracers).
He also mentioned, that the caps of stats might be shifted again - so I guess this will be a complete overhaul of the current situation.
If it works out better than anything we've done until now, we will see. But I would predict, that hybridization might become much more interesting after the changes, as it is already for almost every other DPS spec out there.